The perpetual music thread

The Watercooler
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Most prominent in your posts is your need for (and projection of) morality. Or right and wrong. Of what is ‘actualist’ and what is not. And your attempts at enforcing these standards.
Further, one particularity of religion (over morality) is that it separates the sacred and the profane in the world. Some things are separated from the rest and deemed sacred, the others are deemed profane. Foods, places, objects, art… music.
If you’re looking for a religion, you’re not going to find one here - except the one you’re making yourself.

In this attempted religion of actualism, ‘sacred’ music is defined by you as music “reflecting the sensate world”. This ‘sensate world’ is then something like a God, whose light can only be reflected - by certain things: the sacred things. Certain music, certain art, “reflect the sensate world”, and other don’t. So there is actualist music, and non-actualist music. Also actualist art, presumably. Food, why not… Clothes?

But there is no separation in the actual world. It’s like Richard pointing out that a polystyrene cup is no less ‘natural’ than anything else. There are no things that are more actual than others things. ‘Things’ are all apprehended by the senses. All music is sensate… vibrations of air molecules. If there is emotion, it’s only in the listener.

You then ask for a “separate” (:wink:) music thread that “represents actualism”… music “that is not composed to evoke emotions”. So it’s about the intention of the composer then? What if some actualist went on to make actualist music (?), and that music still evoked emotions in the listener? Would it then fail as actualist music? Or do we just take the composer’s word for it? Like some priest?
What kind of music would not fail that test by the way, I wonder, seeing that everybody is a feeling-being, who is feeling all the time, whatever music may or may not be playing - and those who are not feeling-beings will not have any emotions evoked by any music anyway.

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My investigation into morality or right and wrong.

Why not? Hypocrisy is a soothing strategy or a coping mechanism that most people in real world engage in, including my own unconscious hypocrisies. It’s helpful to point out possible areas of hypocrisies. Intellectual dishonesty is not actualism, or do you mean to say it’s a part of it?

I have no authority to enforce anything.

Nice point.

You mistook me. I meant music conducive for actualism. Just like going for walks in nature or woods, or being alone is more likely to be conducive for EEs.

That’s fine. I’m just concerned that it’s better for the feeling-beings to hear the music that is more likely to facilitate EEs.

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Why not? Composers very well know how to evoke emotions in their audience. Singers modulate their voice as well to create this effect.

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Natural sounds like waterfalls, chirpings of birds, rain sounds, air breezes, instrumental music played when the instrumentalist is in a joyful mood etc can fit the bill, for instance.

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Notice how these “walks in nature or woods” recommendations are generalities, meant to make it somewhat easier, based on some assumed ‘general’ makeup of the identities addressed. It was the case for ‘me’, that it was somewhat easier (not more than that, not any kind of condition) to feel felicitous to the point of having an EE, in such settings. This might be due to some cultural associations of nature and woods with ‘peacefulness’ or ‘purity’, and also to the simple scarcity of usual triggers in such environment (especially if “being alone”)… again, for the kind of identities this advice is aimed at. For I’m not sure some hunter-gatherer would find “woods” to be particularly conducive to EEs.
So… this is all down to the identity. For it is what is standing in the way.
What music evokes felicitous feelings in this or that identity?
Notice how culturally influenced that probably is, then add on top personal idiosyncrasies. And any defined “actualist” music start sounding like actualist “official” music. For who is gonna decide what is and what is not? Me? Have you watched the videos above? :rofl:
By the way, if the criterium for actualist music is the evocation of felicitous feelings rather than other feelings, I’m like the last person to ask hahaha - for it’s all about what feelings are evoked, and none are here. Should we make a poll then? Amongst present identities?.. and just have it reflect cultural norms as to what ‘peaceful music’ is?

I’m not even mentioning the issues with surrounding oneself with actualist music, actualist books/movies, actualist stuff in general… which amounts to think oneself virtually free thanks to having just eliminated the possibility for (some) triggers. Bonus points if living totally alone.

Now if you want to make a separate thread with “waterfalls, chirpings of birds, rain sounds, air breezes, instrumental music played when the instrumentalist is in a joyful mood” you’re totally free to do so.
I might even enjoy it :grin:

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I’ve felt remarkably peaceful at times while listening to high-bpm trance and metal music, there’s something about this identity that really likes it. Pretty much the opposite of a quiet walk in the woods

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u hunter-gatherer @henryyyyyyyyyy ? :rofl:

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I went hunting one time but I missed badly… we do have a lot of berries around here though!

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Sometimes intense death metal actually is soothing or relaxing for me :smiley: Like the voice isn’t “ugly” anymore, it’s just another sound that harmonizes with the distortion of the guitars and it’s like all very pleasurable

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@geoffrey My point is simple. If the music does not facilitate maintaining or increasing feeling good, or trigger(that’s a good thing, but none of the above music was particularly in that direction)feelings acutely, then it’s just a way to kill time while continuing to not feel good. I would like music to be another tool to facilitate EEs rather than watching or listening to it as a pass time.

Now, what is the baseline state for most people here? Are they consistently feeling good? If not, why not post files that they think help them feel good?

Yes, I’m curious why you are insisting on this. I’m positive that it’s not cultural, just like how base emotions are not cultural.

If somebody is mourning their lost love–one of the songs in the playlist above–it won’t be heard just as sounds my most feeling-beings. It’s sung in a way to pull the audience into the pain of the singer.

If it’s just about sounds for feeling-beings too, why did everyone post songs composed in their native tongue or in languages they are familiar with? Why not songs from random unfamiliar languages?

People have an image of themselves and image of others they are interacting with, palpable with some and subtle with others. This keeps identity in place. While in nature, social identity goes dormant, this is not culture dependent, by and large; Aboriginal cultures where nature is also associated with threat don’t apply to the vast majority of us.

Avoiding the “market place” is not what I am suggesting at all. If music can trigger, that’ll be great. But it’s hard to tell what music will trigger which person. And none of the above music was particularly meant to be evocative anyway.

Can you type “Relaxing music” in any app and show me one song that stands as the odd-man-out? No, which means vast majority of people find certain genres music as relaxing.

Is a mourning song same as a playful song for people here? Are they really that far ahead that words and voice modulation don’t affect them and cause affective ruffles even subtly?

People get music recommendations all the time, there are so many music buffs around. But variety in music that is not composed to evoke emotions is hard to find.

I read several times that some people here have been trying different things to fall into EEs. Why not music be another tool to that end?

Anyway, I am curious to have this question polled.

“Do you find instrumental music or music composed without an agenda far more conducive to feeling good than random popular songs?”

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I have found myself preferring instrumental music for a time because it allowed me to more think my own thoughts rather than being directed by the lyrics

I just don’t think there’s any either-or of it being ‘better’ to listen to this kind of music or that kind of music… if it is music that has heavy emotional content, that is interesting in itself… perhaps I will find myself experiencing those emotions, and that can be its own investigation. That is ‘me,’ after all.

And additional to that, regardless the content or intent of the music itself, I can be experiencing direct delight at hearing it. Just the fact that @geoffrey is the most frequent poster here is evidence enough of that.

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That was not the case in any of the songs I listened to above.
Most of them tickle and ruffle some not-heavy emotions, which don’t shape up enough for one to investigate, nor do they help maintain or increase feeling good.

So what is the purpose of listening to them if not to kill time in the name of chilling or “passing the time”? It’s just another preoccupation for the mind to maintain itself.

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May be because it helped you dissociate from yourself when you were feeling bad, thereby made you feel that it made you feel good?

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This is referring to addiction, which can be anything. One can distract & pass the time with food & drink, cigarettes, vaping, music, playing chess, football, hanging out with friends, etc etc etc etc… we are all addicted to something. So whether music is one’s particular addiction, it’s the same issue one needs to figure out.

It also reminds me of Richard’s ‘uncaused vs. caused’ happiness. Am I happy because I’m listening to the music, or because I’m alive?

I can’t agree with this. Any small emotions can be investigated, and in fact that has been one of the most valuable uses of music as well as other forms of media - many times I’d find myself triggered by something, and it turned out to be a worthy investigation to track down just by virtue of the fact that I was triggered. What does it matter how small the ruffle? No matter the degree of diminution of my mood, it’s worth looking into.

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Sure, since music can be changed at will, you can as well put on something heavily emotional that can trigger you, so that you are pulled more into that emotion, thereby you see the dynamics of that emotion more intimately. Or you can add visuals to the audio by watching a drama that you think can trigger you.

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@henryyyyyyyyyy Answer candidly.
Do you think a quiet mind is helpful to practice actualism or is it the opposite?

Now what kind of music facilitates quietness of mind?

Also, is your mind(including emotions) quiet enough to your satisfaction on a typical day that you don’t mind putting on music that ruffles your mind? And repeat the process on a daily basis or frequently?

You already know what many of your triggers are. Your hands are already full with a lot of work given by them. You’ll also encounter them while interacting with people–More work.
Now, you don’t want to come home and put on random music by rationalising it with, “Well, music can trigger me(although I’m not playing particularly emotive music) and even slight triggers will be great opportunities for me to investigate”. Do you?

If you don’t provide time for the mind to quieten but feeding it with random music even in your spare time, is that productive with regards to rising baseline of happiness and becoming free?

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I just posted a video of the Nooran sisters singing in Punjabi (is that the language?) and Andre on guitar.

I have no idea what they said at all.

Just love the high energy and enthusiasm of the song and the powerful voices.

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It depends on the day and the situation. There have been times where as you say I have plenty on my plate already, I’ve already got more than enough ‘food’ for investigation - and I’ve realized that music was more of a distraction, and was increasing my disturbance. I frequently turn music off for this reason.

But other times when I do have time, energy, lightness, music has been a wonderful accompaniment to my time. It’s the same as any of the other addictive things I mentioned above - they can be used addictively, but when I’m not in an addictive mode, they just become something enjoyable - like a cup of tea. Or Richard & his cigarettes :smile:

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https://youtu.be/2Ynj2lBHV_0

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Cause the point isn’t to do things to feel good - it’s to feel good (and then do whatever you want) :slight_smile:

I think you’re conflating relaxing with feeling good. You don’t have to relax to feel good … you can feel good while working or doing chores etc.

Perhaps more “egregiously”, you seem to be conflating feeling good with that spiritual “equanimity”! It’s totally not that

and/or conflating feeling good with not thinking thoughts (also not that). Some of the sheerest delight ive experienced on this planet has come along with thoughts (at how amazing and wondrous it is to be alive).

You got it back to front. You’re conceiving of actualism as a set of things you do or don’t do, a set of morals to follow (you should let your mind quiet ; you shouldn’t listen to random music ; etc) as if this will somehow lead to the goal of actualism , which is the method of actualism , which is unconditionally enjoying and appreciating being alive.

Do you see the contradiction? You are hoping to achieve something unconditional by doing conditional things.

In your example of the person feeding their mind with random music , what is left out is that such a person is already not aiming to feel good. They are chasing after one or another emotion by listening to music. But the listening to music isn’t the problem there. The problem is that they aren’t intending to feel good. And the way they are achieving their aim of not feeling good , in this hypothetical , is listening to random music. But that is incidental. The solution isn’t to stop listening to random music , because then they’ll just find some other way to get what they really want (not feeling good). Rather it’s to change the intention , to sincerely want to feel good.

Then once you are feeling good the question is , what do you do then? Do you listen to random music? Well, maybe … why not? If that’s fun for you. Or if it’s not - if it does lead you to not feeling good - then why would you do it? You would just stop and do something else. But that’s up to the person and the particular circumstance. Maybe you wouldn’t , but someone else would.

You think Geoffrey isn’t enjoying and appreciating while listening to the music he’s posting here? You think he’s doing something other than the actualism method? It’s the same thing … just easier (from what I’m told :smile:)

Geoffrey can correct me if I’m wrong at the latter part here since I don’t know what’s going on in his mind , it’s just an (educated) guess :smile:

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