Which could be said of any planet, star, galaxy. Up to a point, as we don’t know how old galaxies can get before they too blow up.
My point was that life is everywhere, and doesn’t get created by abiogenesis anymore than the universe was created ex nihil in a big bang.
Indeed, it’s all consuming. As you say though, the amount of time there has been ‘selves’ on this planet is very short. At least it seems that way.
My point is that one can easily “Occam’s Razor” one’s way to panspermia faster than abiogenesis.
It’s one of those unfalsifiable questions. Until someone can demonstrate abiogenesis, it remains a theory.
A theory that is rather striking in its similarity to the biblical story of god making us out of the clay. Strikes me as strange that the two biggest theories taught to the masses are so similar to the biblical account.
The upside of trying to answer those big unanswerable questions is, it’s gotten you here. You still have to figure out the down to earth stuff, but now you get to have it all
The first part I mean as a consequence of conservation of matter and energy. If neither can be created or destroyed only transformed, including from one to the other then it must imply they are eternal then right? Always wondered how Big Bang theory reconciles those laws.
The second part, I mean that hypothetically the molecules and elements that are the building blocks of the universe would still exist even if all organic life in the universe died out. I.e. there is an objective universe not dependent on organic matter. But also the potential for life to occur again would also always exists because the same precursors exist to allow organic matter to arise and selves to eventuality form too lol.
Yes, exactly. Crazy to think of galaxies dying and colliding and their age and lifespan.
It took me a moment to get what you mean, if time is eternal and the universe infinite then life is always possible, because the allowed conditions of matter and energy in this universe always allow it. I wouldn’t rule out abiogenesis though, whether on Earth or elsewhere like a meteor. I wouldn’t be surprised if there end up being multiple means of deriving organic matter from inorganic. We know amino acids can form from inorganic precursors now.
The molecules delievered via panspermia have to still formed from inorganic molecules becoming organic. Just as more complex elements formed from nuclear fusion in stars so Hydrogen is the precursor of all other elements and therefore all other molecules. With heavy elements formed from an array of other processes such as supernovae, neutron star collisions etc.
The molecules of panspermia still had to come together from something more simple to something complex. There will probably be multiple means im which inorganic elements form to be organic and self replicating. The problem is knowing the exact precursor conditions to make inorganic matter give rise to organic.
No, I disagree, I don’t think the theory is saying that something came from nothing it is something transformed to something and not something out of nothing. Those molecules just taking a new arrangement and configuration. As we see around us with the constant flux and change in both organic and inorganic matter.
Eventually matter gave rise to stable organic molecules, those organic molecules could then develop an ability to replicate.
If this universe has always been here, has it still gone through the claimed phase where everything was lighter particles, which became hydrogen, which became stars, heavier molecules etc.? Or has there always been a mix of stages of matter?
Let me eat cake. Yes, true. Even just thinking or asking questions used to be full of so many feeling tones and fears. Afraid to offend, make a mistake, be misunderstood. Is enjoyable just to get it out, whatever nonsense pops in and we can always hash it out. If something seems dumb or incorrect or if I am ignorant or have misunderstood something we can find an understanding without any need to feel any which way about it.
Complicated by the fact said matter can arise from energy too, they are interchangeable.
So, everything forever in constant flux. Matter and energy and anti matter and the unknown (dark matter/dark energy).
But still mechanisms for how those elements form in a given local space are what is possible. So, the facts of what is possible in any region of space will become apparent and the evolution of that matter in a given region is valid. It doesn’t imply that nothing ever happened or changed or can be implied or understood in that localised region.
Ah, that’s the “watered down” version of panspermia.
The original version is that life, in the form of viruses, bacteria and some insects can actually survive in deep space.
Hoyles book gives examples bacteria on earth with not only incredible tolerance to radiation, but actively seek it out. Apparently one form is found in nuclear power plants, but not over in the corners of the cooling chambers, but clinging to the radioactive rods!
He points out there has never been an environment on earth that such a ability would evolve. It’s a nuclear power plant!
The only place that has that level of radiation is space.
So, at the very least, in that theory there is bacteria and viruses everywhere.
Which, coupled with traditional evolution, produces subsequent versions of life to suit the conditions.
Comets, meteors, asteroids, rogue interstellar planets & lost moons are the “chariots” of life through the cosmos.
Yes, I have heard of this too but again Occams razor would point to a higher probability of simpler building blocks (pseudo panspermia I believe is more what I have referred to) rather than more developed organisms but like I said if something is possible then it will be possible.
Discoveries of so many different extremophiles have made us realise life has wider parameters than we initially thought. So we know now some of them can exist in space for several years so we adjust our knowledge of the facts that are possible (I missed news on this, probably because I have cancelled my new scientist and scentific american subscriptions.)
But even so, these organisms still evolved and developed to reach this stage in space or other bodies in space. There is a chemical and biological evolution from simpler to more complex molecules occurring, just in space and other bodies on space rather than starting on Earth. Before starting a new phase of development and evolution on Earth.
Additionally, to add complexity both panspermia and abiogenesis may be possible to happen at the same time. Adding multiple potential origins of life, rather than just 1.
I think you are referring to Deinococcus radiodurans. First of all it has evolved to exist in multiple extreme environments. From what I had read about it, it was found in the coolant water tanks used for nuclear rods. So, it is already in water but usually found in other weird places like hydrothermal vents, however not exclusively in water also dry places, mud, faeces etc.
What they have found so far is that it had already evolved a different approach to repairing DNA and RNA which has evolved from UV exposure and dessication (extremely dry environments) and some other extreme environments.
The extreme conditions it has evolved in has enabled it to evolve unique capabilities to repair and withstand higher levels of radiation. Sometimes something can evolve in one area and have multiple uses like how serotonin and oxytocin in the brain also have other chemical occurences in other body systems. So, a protein or chemical can have potential more uses but also future evolutionary use in an environment the protein hasn’t been exposed to yet. In a sense, every expressed protein in any living organism may have more potential uses, benefits in environments and conditions it hasn’t been exposed to (or detriments lol). It doesn’t mean each protein and function must explicitly evolve for each capability.
For example, the evidence is starting to point to the resistance developed from dessication is more linked to also providing the protection from radiation. This is because mutant strains which have less protection from dessication also seem to have less protection from radiation. So it is a fortunate side effect rather than driven evolutionary property.
Yes, this is fascinating to contemplate too. Multiple points and places of molecules and organisms evolving and spreading across the universe.
Yes, going back to that definition of life. Many argue that viruses don’t quite fit into that neat category of life. Needing a host, predominantly RNA, no metabolic processes, its only life-like property is reproduction but still requires a host for this.
