Shame about sexuality

Sometimes they do, but so often they don’t. I’ve been realizing this about my own going out on the town, sometimes I meet someone interesting but most often I don’t. So the belief of expecting that can die, it’s just something that happens every so often. And when it does it’s nice. Always sitting on the edge of my chair when it comes to these things is very uncomfortable!

I was realizing yesterday that my whole entire schtick was that I was the guy that ‘understood emotions,’ was ‘sensitive,’ and therefore a good mate. But then when it comes down to it they really just want someone who understands emotions and is sensitive so that they will agree with all their complaints… the idea is someone who will always ‘understand’ aka always agree.

And furthermore, I’m not even free anyway! I’m actually quite confused. So it’s just this scaffold hiding just as much flailing as ever. I’m just trying to trick some girl into thinking that I have my act together.

So my energy is much better spent actually getting my act together…

Yes, well articulated. It massively amplifies when I have had a positive encounter. This woman at my previous job asked me out unaware I was married with kids and I then become like super on the edge of the chair in an extra obsessive way. Like some little puppy desperate for attention…nobody will stroke me.

In a way that neediness is probably quite unattractive. During my most successful period with AF and then my first recovery period back on track with AF after my accident (before my first relapse back into anxiety and depression again) I had so much female attention and I wasn’t trying. I was just comfortable enjoying the method and there was no intent to make something happen or attract the opposite sex. Yet in that state I attracted so many more women than I normally have in my day to day life, it was bizarre. This second patch period also being when I attracted my wife.

Any other period in my life has never had such attention or encounters other than that point in adolescence just before I became spotty and hairy.

Damn, that was my schtick too. I think I am going to cringe…I couldn’t find a cringe emoji with the search lol.

What you say about someone who agrees, I would go as far as to say also validates their beliefs and sense of self. This has also been the case for friendships not just romantic/sexual partners. Hence, I seem to really trigger my partners. Even my wife now, this is the ultimate crux of tension between us. I don’t validate her beliefs and I bore the hell out of her lol!

Yes I’ve had phases like this as well, it makes me aware that attraction is about so much more than physical attributes

These are some good ones, take your pick lol
:face_with_peeking_eye: :grimacing: :sweat_smile: :sweat: :weary:

Yes agreed. I’ve been catching myself looking for that a lot lately too, I think it’s really what my desire is with talking with people about actualism… I don’t really care if they get into actualism, I just want the ‘high’ that comes with someone agreeing with me

edit: Ok, some of it is also that I want them to be happy and think that actualism is valid lol

I applied this also with strategy with atheism too so I guess I have already been down this road a lot and never bothered with actualism. I just wanted the high of them validating my ego.

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Unbelievable… :roll_eyes: :smile:

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Can care be cultivated?
Or is it that care shines forth by itself when the blockages for care are dismantled?
When you are frustrated and preoccupied with stressful issues, you won’t have much energy(not physical energy, but the vitality of life if you know what I mean) to take care of others. Isn’t that true?
I think care can’t be cultivated, if it is, then it’s fake or pretense or effortful. Correct me if I’m wrong.

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guys hold on , i cant keep up with the reading , i am still on post 12 … :smiley:

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That’s indeed a good point. Social awkwardness and stage fright also work on the same dynamic–Fear of failure, where failure is with respect to the need that “people will not not accept me” or “my status will go down in their eyes”. If you feel more relaxed and be okay with your partner feeling off-putting(failure) by your desire, things may pan out better. Since security ranks high on women’s preferences, it can actually decrease likelihood of you off-putting her.

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@henryyyyyyyyyy If you are with an attractive person, be with the feeling of desire. No need to get into flights of fantasy thoughts, but be with that feeling. See if your muscles are relaxed, take deep breaths(emotions build upon themselves and runaway in no time. Like with anger, there’s a spark of anger and if not noticed initially, it will quickly take control and drive the person. Same with any acute emotion. So deep breath eases muscles, take you out of building fantasies, and defuse the mounting emotion and help you take stock of the situation in a more actualistic manner(emotions distort perception. So when you want to reflect back on the situation, you will have emotionally clouded perception to back on).

Don’t bother about pleasuring her(if ny care you also meant that) or performing well, they will take care of themselves naturally, but place attention on your feelings. The attention shouldn’t feel “heady”. It naturally comes over when the mind is not preoccupied with thoughts.
Isn’t investigation about understanding ourselves?
And what are thoughts but mostly judgements of ourselves and others, comparisons, should haves, ideas of what we are and trying to conform to them…and all that nonsense? They give the semblance of giving us security but actually throws the monkey wrench in understanding ourselves.

Can you try having sex with a prostitute? If you feel that’s dissatisfying, you’ll know for yourself that by seeking your partner, you aren’t seeking only sex. Otherwise, sex worker would have fulfilled you. So you won’t have guilt that you aren’t being true to yourself with your partner. If you feel satisfied, consider yourself lucky since you are free from most of other desires that accompany sexual like desire except may be feeling of accomplishment{which is created by the culture and media that scoring someone is an indicator of worthiness and it’s easy to lap on that because that’s what top-down ideas do(as opposed to understanding from experience): conflating what actually is happening with the canned, ready-made, easy to latch on with some dubious scientifically sounding theories(and psychology is bandied about science but psychologists minds, as well as the minds of their subjects for experimentation, are not free from biases and emotionally-distorted ideas)}

What @Johnny calls delightful when he sees a woman is most likely subliminal desire. That desire slowly builds up, upon recurrent stimulations, over several days ending in a wet dream or jerking off. Desire creates separation between what the present is and what the desire wants. Problem with sexual desire is, it promises fulfilment like every other desire but it won’t. So the suffering caused by the separation that sexual desire creates will be never ending if one keeps acting in a habitual manner, feeding the same circuits.

In contrast, both my father and my mother are hairy (of course, she lived a good part of her life waxing herself), so I’m the missing link! :smiley:

At 11 it was common for people to stare at me due to my fuzz moustache. I had to shave when I was 12 due to a dense fuzz moustache that earned me shouts in the street like “Dwarf!”, “Shave it off, kid; you look like a cop!” -it was not a time of political correctness- (all cops wore mustaches in Argentina -a de facto government- and they were even less popular than usual :grimacing:).

At 13 I already had more hair on my legs than my father and then on my chest and my back, so I refused to take off my shirt at the beach every summer, in swimming pools, country houses, etc. (it was a really “hot” adolescence and early youth! :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes:).

At 26, on my honeymoon in Brazil, while I was looking at the sea (now without a psychological complex and without a t-shirt) a woman on the beach shouted in astonishment: Você é um macaco! (You are a monkey!) :laughing: (I could only look at her, laugh and say: “It’s true, I’m a monkey”).

So don’t worry: you’re not alone!

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Looool

This does ring a bell with my past experience, I remember times I was doing really well that care was just there.

So then I’m back to where I started, which is to just enjoy myself and these things will sort themselves out. I find this part a bit circular, I’m frustrated (therefore not enjoying) because of these sexuality issues, but my frustration is partly due to not seeing the whole picture = lack of caring.

So that can be reason enough to drop the whole thing. Any circular logic is meaningless.

I was putting this together a few months ago, it seems that as soon as I experience someone as beautiful, as soon as I begin to experience that desire, I’m a bit fucked because I’ve brought that fear of failure into the picture as well. I tense up, things don’t come as easily, literally my brain doesn’t work as well. So the desire itself is scaring away its very object

I’m sure all this worked decently enough when we existed as pure animals, but in the kinder gentler world we live in now, it’s almost comically dysfunctional

:ok_hand: :ok_hand:

Yes this makes sense to me.

Most often the thinking is trying to come up with ways to escape the emotion. Doing my best to be sincere here to have some success

I’m certainly guilty of this, I still experience how my friends would obsess over sex and then like “nice bro!” when sex happens. Interesting

The funny thing I’ve been reminded of going into this topic is that the most recent time I had sex was largely unsatisfactory. So it’s not as simple as that. I guess that’s where the fairy-tale comes in though, I still imagine that with the perfect person that everything would go great.

So as long as it remains the fairy tale, it can endure because it’s never reached

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Damn this is a cool topic, I want to try writing something but I fear it may end up being very long :sweat_smile:

My personal experience with desire is one of the most persistent themes that I remember troubling me from when I first stumbled upon actualism at 18 all the way until about 28 when it finally resolved.

Desire and Love were the 2 main motivating factors for me abandoning Actualism at 19 as I wanted to go out into the world, explore Love and also possibly live the fantasy of being the ultimate player! :joy:

I think partly it was such an issue because when I moved from Poland to the UK I did not have any sort of social relations until 18. Never had a girlfriend, no sexual experiences, no relations with girls at all for that matter. I was so socially isolated that I actually didn’t speak to anyone for years.

When I started growing up and finally discovered some semblance of confidence, I thought that this whole world of women could be my oyster now.

The next years were all about chasing the high of sex and of being desired, of living that ultimate player fantasy. Of course the actual experience of it all was nothing like the fantasy :joy: I found that whole world to be full of games, problems and ultimately unsatisfactory. But the fantasy had such a grip on me that I simply kept pursuing it, when I failed to live up to the fantasy it was simply because I was not good enough, and I had to try harder! I was not a ‘true player’ :joy:

I eventually got into being a butler in the buff (like a glorified stripper) for hen parties. I thought surely if there is somewhere where exploring sexuality can be simple it must be these scenarios!

Around the same time I was in an open relationship pursuing my fantasy of the ultimate sexual high. ALL of my time and mental energy was spent on either trying to arrange or fantasising about sexual encounters. I wanted to try it all and I did end up having all sorts of experiences. It was truly like a rollercoaster ride, it was maybe fun for 5% of the time when the object of desire was met but then the other 95% were filled with essentially being unhappy and also at conflict with my partner at the time.

All these observations were leading me somewhere though, I was getting progressively more disillusioned with that whole world. I could see the effects it was having on my relationship and I could see the effects it was having on my happiness and harmlessness. Still though it was such a persistent one, I was not ready to give up on the fantasy just yet!

When I met Sonya I knew that I could not continue as I was, I saw how my desire to live some fantasy affected my previous relationship and led to all sorts of misery for both of us.

The first couple of weeks/months of dating Sonya I was still somewhat trapped in the fantasy, I still experienced this FOMO that said - “if you’re not out there having wild sex with the next hot girl you are a looser, there must be something wrong with you!”
At that time I simply allowed myself to continue pursuing the fantasy all the while being attentive to how this whole thing made me tick.

Shortly after that the thing faded.

What I see now is that to remove this thing from my life was like a HUGE project, it was a combination of so many things over so many years that eventually the thing clicked.

Looking back now I certainly experience a freedom from being constantly driven to pursue some sexual fantasy and all that comes with it. There is also the palpable peace and harmony between me and Sonya now vs my previous relationship that was full of strife.
Also because I am not constantly pre-occupied with this fantasy I have noticed that my attention has naturally shifted to the things which I enjoy doing. Like training martial arts, hanging out with my friends, eating snacks and watching TV with Sonya etc.

The great thing is, and this is something that I am still exploring. Is that I can actually experience that thing which desire was trying to get to but could never reach - Pure sexual and sensual pleasure, with Sonya.

There is no need to project this into some fantasy that inevitably fails to live up to its expectations. I can have complete sexual satisfaction with my parter. That Pure sexual pleasure is just underneath the energy of desire (this is how I experience it), desire is pointing in the right direction but it can never reach ‘it’.

I remember when I met with Alan and Dona and Alan started telling me about his various sexual experiences, the way he was describing it made me realise that as part of being an ‘Actualist’ I was actually suppressing my sexuality.
I knew the negative consequences that desire can have so I suppressed it. Listening to Alan though, about ‘sex dripping off the walls’, ‘never being able to have enough of your partner’ etc made me realise that something was missing, that a different approach was needed rather than just suppressing desire out of fear of what it might make me do.

I also remember reading something that Srinath wrote which summarised the problem perfectly for me, it is still something that I often think about - That the only ‘dirty’ thing about sex is ‘me’.

I realised that I had to strip away everything that prevents sex from being that thing which desire wants but can never reach - complete sexual and sensual satisfaction.

So the way I see it now in myself is that it is not enough to say, “I am an actualist so I must get rid of desire”, because in the process I might end up preventing myself from discovering pure sex. It seems that the focus needs to be rather on peeling back the layers which prevent me from experiencing pure sex and consequently send me off to the fantasy realm which is sorta like a consolation for the fact that I cannot experience sex at its optimum.

Writing this has made me pretty excited to look at those very layers within myself, because I see that pure sex is so much more than the sexual fantasies that ‘I’ concoct.

If I was always after some ‘sexual high’ well this is even better than that!

It does seem like the most straightforward way to be able to fully explore sex is to have a stable relationship though. The world of one night stands, NSA sex or open relationships seems to have too many moving parts in order for people to explore sex in a way that is both benign and completely fun.

The closest I can relate to experiencing what Alan was describing has been having sex with @Sonyaxx after having some recreational drugs at a party (I know I’m a bad bad actualist :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:)

In that moment there was sex only for sexes sake, there was no hang ups, no worrying what she is thinking, no fear of being so physically intimate, no pressure placed upon me as to how I am performing. All this stuff faded away, there was also no Love. There was simply the complete physical satisfaction of what we were doing and it was fricking awesome :smiley:

So this is sort of my yardstick, that is what I am aiming for and I can see that I do not get there by suppressing desire but rather exploring it fully so that anything preventing pure sex can be peeled back.

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As long as you don’t create an energy around caring. Actual caring would have no energy to it other than pure intent. Trying to imitate actual caring would be difficult. I would rather just see how caring is a natural way of being when my feelings are settled and nice.

When desire is present the feelings are really circulating strongly. I like to release the tension and just focus on a stress free being. Easier said than done when your attention is on getting the attention of another. So I make a choice in that moment. Do I prefer to focus on her attentions? Do I focus on a feeling being carefree? And there’s no right or wrong to it. Obviously, the latter is harmless. And the former isn’t. But no one’s gonna suffer if a guy indulges in some gently flirtatious energy. And at any time, one can release that tension so the feeling of being carefree is felt again.

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So relatable and I still do this. :rofl:

One benefit when I was younger I could grow a beard and being tall I looked older. I made money getting people cigarettes, alcohol or pornography magazines, I would take my little cut lol.

Yes, I have had this. I have had women dump me once they realised I was hairy. One girlfriend even at the point we were going to have sex for the first time.

I know I could wax or get laser hair removal but there is this stubborn part of me that doesn’t want to have to change my physical self, I sometimes wonder where would it stop…get a nose job…start taking steroids to pump up…

Thanks :rofl: :man_facepalming: :people_hugging:

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This does seem like a stubborn part indeed, after all if a problem that has troubled you for so long can potentially be removed via a simple solution why not?
No need to invoke the slippery slope either you’d just be getting a wax :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

I guess I’ve always been somewhat lucky there as I have no body hair really, although it does suck that I can’t grow a beard! At 28 I still look about 19 :smiling_face_with_tear:

This was one of my first insights ever gained from practicing actualism. I remember noticing I couldn’t even walk properly when I came passed a woman I found attractive. Like tripping over my own feet. I was infamous among my friends for many embarrassing slip ups with women. Even as I got more confident I would still mess things up. In an old job once I went to ask this girl out I liked and there was this section of loads of stands for hanging coats and hats and I leaned on one while I was asking her out and just caused this massive domino effect of knocking them all down! She walked away without answering me :rofl:

This rings true for me too.

I enjoyed sex and I was good at it, I had good stamina and was fine with foreplay, performance wise women never complained and I was aware and sensitive enough to try and want to figure out how to please them. It was always the reaction to my body that disappointment when they see your hair or moles or not being as muscular as they were hoping. Knowing they are not having the true fantasy they wanted, that I can’t please their mind as I can their body.

Wow, this is deep. I can see this in me too. Another blind spot.

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:joy: I want to hear more! Hey at least you tried. I was so invested in my fantasy of being good looking that I wouldn’t even attempt out of fear of them not thinking the same!

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I think that is a big one! And you can take it from the ‘buff butler’ that the fear still remains, I just think that she is probably thinking about the even hotter guy than me

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I got sidetracked here too. I was in the middle of my first long term relationship when introduced to AF and I only had experienced unrequited love so I was conflicted. Then she cheated on me which was a first, excellent for investigating though. Her act made me then comfortable to bring up AF to her. It is like ok, I am not going to dump you but now you have to listen to what I am actually doing with my life and what is important to me. It didn’t work out obviously. But I still found myself wanting to explore that love and know for sure it doesn’t deliver the goods.

I can imagine that was a difficult upheaval. I had no sexual experiences until I was 21 when finally confident enough. I actually thought I was going to be a 40 year old virgin lol.

Haha that is nice. I have never felt this confident. Even when having patches of more attention it felt brittle like I am skating on thin ice.

It sounds like you are a pretty good looking guy if you are a stripper so I can imagine how much of a pull this must have been for you. Impressive that you could be so honest though.

Interesting, sounds tiresome. For me, the sex drive always been kind of cyclical with myself noticing certain things like heat waves used to increase my horniness. Day to day I could be totally fine and it would build up. I used to joke with my mates it was like some man version of a period without the pain, bleeding and PMT.

Wow, so a lot of this discovery is still quite recent for you then?

I think if I had been more attractive I would have for sure been stuck in this same scenario. I guess I got lucky then :rofl:

Wow, awesome. I have no doubt of the immensity of this blocker, kudos.

This has only started to come to light to me recently. Even to the point where I can also admit a degree of bisexuality too.

Well put, I only had my first EE in sex this past week. It was almost like sensory overload, and I was so much more present and stimulated. I could never have imagined such a state, there is no substitute for the experiential.

I am so afraid I would be that 1% that gets a heart attack or die, that I could never even indulge and do something like this either. Such a need for control.

This is an awesome response, thanks for sharing with such honesty.

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