Just a general warning to be wary of mania vs. felicity . I’ve conflated the two before. Both feel very very good of course, and while in a mania-type of state (I have self-assessed that I have been hypomanic before, maybe, but never full-blown mania certainly) it seems like it is excellence (as in an EE) it becomes clear in hindsight that it is something different.
This isn’t an assessment of what you’re experiencing now, just something I found helpful to look out for!
Something I’ve experienced pretty frequently is 1 minute of PCE → manic for a short or long while → eventually figure out that’s what’s happening and re-orient
As this has happened more and more there was a blend of feeling discouraged about isolating purity (its own issue to figure out) and catching myself quicker and quicker.
I wrote about the back & forth between manic & depressive states here a few days back
thanks @henryyyyyyyyyy and @claudiu for the feedback and perspective! i think you’re both right in your caution. it’s been happening as you described henry, where i’ll have a few moments of deep sensory clarity and they’re so rewarding and nice and i’m so excited to be “making progress” that i just get this euphoric emotional rush.
i did notice today a bit of a “hangover” to that rush, where something in me noticed its absence and craved its return. that, plus the buzzy high that mania entails, makes it seem like it’s pretty drug-like, and i’d prefer not to get caught in another cycle of high-chasing. so i think the best way to take it is probably just to allow it to come when it does, like sadness, and observe it without fighting it or indulging it, and not to feed it by longing for it either.
Something I’ve noticed is that because ‘I’ can only really remember the manically-inclined afterglow, a lot of the absence that I’m mourning & craving is that excitement- which only ‘spun up’ as the clarity experience ended. It’s a slight but significant redirect from the PCE/EE itself, and leads to trying to recreate that excitement rather than the initial experience itself.
This has been most obvious in me when I’ve tried to transmit excitement to others about actualism, where that excitement is slightly missing the point of the PCE itself, and is really just for ‘me’ to prove ‘my’ specialness.
There’s a reason Richard calls the self ‘sneaky!’
The other side of course is to use whatever fuel one has, for as long as it goes - if some excitement is the right button to push to get you out of bed, investigating, and having PCEs, then it’s the right thing to do at that time.
We talked about this a few months back, and I remember back in the meditation circles, they would talk about “insight disease”; chasing the byproducts and experience rather than the freedom (which in those systems was another insight, but we won’t go into that).
I experienced this last year. Really getting somewhere, however it wasn’t “sticking” because it was the reward of “getting somewhere” rather the the “being here” that was the motivation.
Not to say it’s not useful, those insights are the building blocks of confidence.
How I experience it is that indeed there is the experience of perfection with I am looking to get as close to as possible each moment again. That is kinda the gist of the whole thing.
But this getting closer to it and allowing it more and more has an effect on ‘me’. That shadowy construct which is ‘me’ does not remain the same with the continued exposure to perfection, it cannot.
So there will be realisations, and things clicking and new things falling away etc, but perhaps the main thing is that these are bi-products of the success with the method, signs that things are actually changing.
The issue is when I begin to chase these things as an end in itself. Because firstly I am most likely operating from a place of not feeling good to begin with (looking for an escape) and secondly the various explorations will not be genuine, there will be some tinge of fabrication, of spinning an actualist story. I have done this a lot and nowadays I am starting to have more of a sense of when this starts to develop. Where I start to shift from a genuine exploration and towards a fabricated story.
most emotional pain doesn’t actually “hurt” upon close enough inspection.
what is a moment of insecurity, or annoyance, or craving once it is stripped of its story, and felt in the most raw and bodily way? a tense muscle, usually. it can relax when noticed. i notice the longing to continue stirring the waters of emotional agitation. i feel it as a tightness in the temple and jaw. and let go
that which told itself stories of hell is just a phantom. a foreboding compulsion to direct attention away from something i convince myself will be wretched, painful, terrifying - only to finally truly look and find the core of my suffering to be something hazy and half-formed, which dissolves as my attention draws nearer to it like a mirage
the bliss i have experienced in love is greater than any sober pleasure i’ve known and the validation was deeply reassuring. why does this matter?
i suffer. i would like to escape my suffering. the path of romantic love has provided temporary escape in the past and i have hypothesized that if i can find a lasting, mutually-interested mate, my suffering and insecurity will be alleviated.
i want it but i can only do so much to control whether i get it - this causes more suffering to escape from. if i find it i will know it is rare and that i am dependent upon it to suffer less - this will also create suffering, now tied to another.
unwinnable. i still feel the longing. i would love to taste mutual love for real, to know experientially that it is not what i am looking for. holding onto that desire keeps me locked into the very pain i crave love to escape from. i scrutinize and compare my appearance and behavior to try and gauge whether i am worthy of the love i want
i find this very tiring. it is probably within my power to let go. would i be missing out on something fundamental to the human experience? i want to live it and feel it and understand. it is the last experience i really want
Have you been in a romantic relationship where both of you loved each other? I ask because having ridden the love wave all the wave up and down, I can say that romantic love feelings are truly amazing, but they come with the brutal cost of dependency, jealously, insecurity and the like. For me personally, they rank below things I’ve experienced in EEs, a PCE, and various drug states. But then again, only after having tasted it can I tell you this. I’d say if your heart is set on it, you’re going to go in that direction anyway. So might as well commit. I know that I could not have gone in any direction other than love.
in all my romantic dynamics, the love has been somewhat one-sided - either i have been holding out, or my partner has. while i would like to scratch the curious itch of finding that mutual love, it is so very rare that i find someone who provokes those feelings in me that it kind of feels like i am deferring happiness until i win the lottery
your observations on insecurity, jealousy, etc. resonated with me. i have felt the feeling i am chasing towards one man before. he is with someone else now. there is a part of me that wants his freedom and happiness, but it is buried underneath a self-pitying, aching desire for him to love me back. the part that aches seems to be the very same part that experiences enthrallment with the romantic possession of another - this dejectedness is the ugly side of the infatuated thrill.
i am a little soured to that feeling in seeing that it doesn’t actually care about his well-being, it just wants him to play a desirable role in my story for my comfort and pleasure
I am sorry you are going through that. Lost love is so very painful: One of the worst things about being human - No doubt. Sorting through those feelings both rationally like you describe yourself doing and, more importantly, intuitively* will be fruitful. But be sure to find pure intent first** and hold onto it while doing the sorting. Otherwise, there is no third alternative to aim for. You will be merely trying for the 2nd best` of 3 options``. May I recommend pouring over the AFT’s numerous mentions of pure intent.
*feeling out the feelings and allowing yourself to feel better
**the essence of infinitude, benevolent and benign, external to oneself and able to be felt sensuously
`being free of those bad feelings/having good feelings in their stead
``3 - pure intent/EE’s, 2- good feelings, 1- bad feelings
thank you for your kind words. it feels intense but it’s just a silly mourning for something that never existed. it’s been painfully helpful pointer towards the very discomforts that led me to become enraptured with a fantasy
i’ll be honest - a lot of richard’s lingo only somewhat lands with me. i don’t think i have the clarity of connection to a PCE to have my intent be fully “pure”, i’m kind of muddling through. i experience the pendulum of emotions (intuitively as you said), good and bad, and i increasingly experientially see how they create each other. and am less inclined to chase many of the highs as time passes. but i still chase sometimes. i also don’t know if i fully know what an EE is, experientially. i have many more lovely moments now than i used to
i have had a lot coming up in response to having seen the man i was in love with this past friday, and i see i have been inclined to believe some of the narratives arising in this pain. it’s hard to stay lucid. awareness really does alleviate the hardest suffering but the habitual pull to soothing habits is strong, and the stories boil in the back of my brain while i try to numb. if effort is not made to become aware, this suffering pattern is the path of least resistance
I wonder if being’s intent can ever be pure. I doubt it. My guess is that the intent comes from one’s native intelligence or perhaps a part of “the essential character of the universe”. Read up on it and try to experience it yourself.
Yeah I think looking for ‘my’ pure intent is not the way to go. I was just thinking now of another way pure intent could be explained.
I thought of ‘me’ as the ‘being’ being able to dip ‘my’ (forever rotten) toes in the perpetually flowing river that is actuality. ‘I’ cannot own this cooling water flowing by and offering its blessings. It is not ‘me’ and it is not ‘mine’ and yet it has an effect on ‘me’, it offers a respite and changes ‘me’.
I like the latter two sentences. I don’t like the first image personally cause it makes it seem like ‘I’ and actuality can “touch”. It may be just word choice but I don’t like to describe it that way. There was a long thread about it here: Connection to pure intent without contact?
Maybe the best I can do is that pure intent is like a new way of being conscious starts to take hold, ‘I’ can be aware it’s happening but ‘I’ can’t feel it out, but ‘I’ can allow it to happen and be naive as a result and allow ‘myself’ to go further in the background eventually leading to an EE or a PCE.
Yeah agreed I guess that is the limits of trying to use a metaphor. Now come to think of it I actually prefer what @John wrote :
This different approach … felt like the opening of a window and now to have a fresh air flowing into the dark dungeon called me - here to mix with the stench of the rotten feelings that I’ve been breathing for so long
Still there is the issue of contact lol but I don’t think there is a way to get around that with a metaphor. At least air is less solid than water
This is probably more closely aligned with what actually happens, as in the experience of purity and the experience of ‘being’ are 2 different modes of consciousness. One is dirty and one is clean, they can never be aligned into 1 though.
However the experience of purity leaves a lasting impression which then continues working away at the identity in the long term and also provides relief to the ‘being’ in the short term by diminishing separation.
There is 1 affecting the other even though there is no contact.
Also to add: the “pure” in “pure intent” means the same thing as the “pure” in “pure consciousness experience” — ie, absent of self or Self or being. It refers to something outside of the human condition.
So indeed ‘me’ or ‘my’ intent or ‘being’, can never be pure — with the word used in the sense as it is in “pure intent” and “pure consciousness experience”.
One could say one’s intent is genuine or sincere — and indeed a synonym of these in general usage (ie not specific actualism terminology) would be “pure” — but that would just be conflating terms.
It’s possible to source / increase the connection to pure intent via sincerity
What do you sincerely want? Do you have a sincere connection to the aims of actualism? And from that sincerity clarity of purpose can come, the energy for whatever leg-work is necessary can come, and the connection to the purity comes.
. I’ve conflated the two before. Both feel very very good of course, and while in a mania-type of state (I have self-assessed that I have been hypomanic before, maybe, but never full-blown mania certainly) it seems like it is excellence (as in an EE) it becomes clear in hindsight that it is something different.