Magical Mystery Tour

Actualism
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So I thought I’d finally get around to writing about my 2 day trip to Ballina a few months ago with Craig and Felix.

My primary aim was to find out more about the ‘guardian’ and the transition from basic to full freedom. I also just wanted to catch up with Richard and Vineeto and see what meeting them as an actually free person would be like.

Felix picked me up at the airport and we drove in together the next day. Craig was already in the boat house taking to Richard and Vineeto. Haha I remember how we misfired by getting way too much junk food - chips and lollies - the first day. Richard liked the deli meat and fresh fruit spread better on day 2. As did I!

We discussed a lot of topics, not all of which I’m going to list here. But here are the highlights that stood out for me …

The thing that was the most striking, surprising and memorable was the energy around Richard and Vineeto, which I perceived as different in an optical way. It was like you get in a mirage where the air seems to bend and shimmer light around it - except far subtler. Craig remarked that my face looked completely different, much more relaxed after AF. And Felix could also perceive something different in our manner and energy vs. himself - and other people. So the most impactful memory wasn’t something content based at all really. I asked Vineeto about the energy around them and she said it was infinitude.

The other thing Richard said was that no one on the forum seemed to be practicing the actualism method! He was urging Felix to be one of the first ones to do so and therefore set an example. But he also said he was satisfied with the success of actual freedom.

I might just cut/paste the other stuff from the notes I made that might be of interest. If it doesn’t make sense I’m happy to clarify:

Vineeto - (for full AF) You need to find something that makes you go, that drives you. That is important. Both Peter and Grace, felt that they are happy with what they had. I wasn’t happy. I knew I wanted the full freedom, to be there with Richard where he was. Knew this by talking to him about his experience but also the experience of sitting with him.

You know you reach full freedom when you get there and you know there is nothing more that needs to be done.

‘Many more things’ to become fully AF post guardian abdication that she wrote about - including contemplation of infinite time and infinite space - anywhere/anywhen and nowhere/nowhen - she lost her bearings.

(Abdication) …was like talking to a different person, negotiating with her, finally guardian left - like walked away to the other side of the moat leaving her behind.

Richard - jade goddess vision when he was newly free. Was mixing up bits of enlightenment with his newly free experience. Different appraisal now after many years of hindsight.

Better at comforting people as I am no longer in the way now - Richard. Agreed with Craig’s experience of this.

Peter first came up with the idea of shadow identity which Vineeto called guardian - something left.

Richard enjoys and is moved by watching stories of human triumph on TV and Vineeto is moved by e.g. Americas Got Talent and The Voice!

Richard’s enlightenment experience purged him of much social identity - somehow through ego death. But some unknowns and disparity of opinion about to what extent social identity is a bit about ego. Ego related to social identity perhaps? Vineeto suggested that there may be mental aspects of ego that were related to social identity and still present when one is newly free.

Limitations of NF freedom well recognised by Vineeto.

All those beliefs, values, egoish stuff, knits itself into a coherent identity. (Memories of feeling too I think)

Richard was scared to give up being a smart aleck identity, sarcasm as he got by with his wits not his fists.

You can’t be got at psychically! In fully AF

You are completely anonymous in fully AF

Becoming more feminine - Richard noticed this in himself. Craig had it too - children more comforted by him than his wife.

Newly free Vineeto noted that even after abdication she was not in Richard’s place (experientially and by questioning)

In order to become NF be prepared to give up everything, then realising it comes back at a different level (reminds me of Geoffrey’s report - which was also my experience in becoming AF)

Became interested in politics only after actual freedom - examining beliefs about what was imported into the actual world - didn’t want the community of actually free people to be burdened by these wrong ideas.

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Heard!

This made me realize that I primarily write here about difficult things, basically only the things that I’m struggling about… I have a belief that it’s ‘bad’ to communicate about doing well, like it’s bragging! But that manifests as a feeling of shame about doing well. Interesting!

Can you say more about this? I’m a little confused by it

This makes perfect sense, thanks for sharing this

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This is a great pointer @Srinath … thanks !

Just yesterday I felt the same for myself…somehow I had way more drive for doing mindfulness as a Vipassana practice compared to Actualism method…Probably only goes to show where the deeper change lies !

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It references a clarification from a previous exchange that we had, which is on the AFT. Basically I wanted to know what the ‘many more things’ that had to happen after abdication of the guardian were - in order to become fully free.

http://www.actualfreedom.com.au/actualism/vineeto/actualvineeto/sydney.htm

RESPONDENT: Q2 When you say … ‘I was still not fully free then, and many more things had to happen’ … can you give me an idea of what things had to happen? I know that you were interacting intensely with Richard after he returned from India. I was wondering if the experiences and investigation around those interactions constituted the bulk of the ‘many more things’. It seems like the definitive moment happened here in October 2010, about 9 1/2 months after you became actually free, if I am accurate about the times.

VINEETO: Yes, the definite moment of becoming fully free happened on October 12, 2010. and yes, “the experiences and investigation around those interactions constituted the bulk of the ‘many more things’.”

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Fascinating! Is it to say that you actually did perceive this subtle energy ocularly? Like it was a visual percept that made itself present in your (optical) sensorium? Or more that you perceived the energy in some other way (“existentially” I might say) and it was as if it was visual?

Like was the visual experience an analogy your brain was making or was it actually visual?

I contrast with my experiences of pure intent where it alternately seems like a light yellow hue or a cool blue or like a fresh breeze etc even though I’m not actually perceiving it that way per se.

Fascinating indeed. Did being around Richard and Vineeto cause you to also experience infinitude?

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So many thoughts about this! My first (emotional) reaction - “How dare you say this Richard when all I’ve been trying to do for 3 years is practicing the actualism method, you don’t know me!” :joy:
Deeper underneath that I can see a wanting to be recognised for being a good actualist and also a fear of - have I been going wrong this whole time?
It’s like the big daddy has spoken and I have failed him.

Second thought - does this mean Richard has been keeping up with the writings on the forum in general? Or is the assessment based off the bits of selected correspondence included in various emails to them.

Then looking at this again in a more matter of fact way - Am I practicing the actualism method at all? Aka am I enjoying and appreciating this moment of being alive, each moment again?

Certainly not each moment again, my enjoyment and appreciation seems and always seemed to oscillate, there are times where I am enjoying and appreciating this moment of being alive each moment again in a way where I am constantly riding that wave. Then there are times where I find myself stuck in some drama (no longer enjoying and appreciating each moment again, aka no longer applying the method).

Yet is this to say that one would need to be essentially living in virtual freedom in order to practice the method. What am I missing here? :thinking: @Srinath are you able to comment on any of this at all?

Oh funnily enough just before I woke up and first thing grabbed my phone to find this thread, I was dreaming about hanging out with Srinath and Geoffrey haha.

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So glad to read Craig was there. Haven’t been in touch in years.

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Interesting report.

Haha, fascinating. I have long lived to my own expectations, when I was 16 and realised I don’t have to live to my parents expectations, it was a powerful realisation. That there was no authority over me. As an atheist there was already no religous authority or God authority over me either. My parents, older siblings and older relatives and close family friends held power over me. Then I relinquished their authority over me. It changed the nature of our relationships. Being the youngest in the family at that time before the new generation, it was such a hostile reaction to realise they had lost manipulation and influence over me.

I think for me, the problem with something not having experience in, it is accepting there is a difference between familial and emotional manipulative authority and actual authority in the sense of having more experiential capability in a domain, be it AF or an actual physical skill such as a trade, sport or an intellectual pursuit.

For me, I think I am finally doing the method correctly now despite years of not. Recent improvements in all areas of my life from following the method as described. Overcoming a decade of depression and anxiety hasn’t been plain sailing and I didn’t have a definitive guide to follow on that. If I have somehow misinterpreted the steps then would need clearer indication as to how I have misinterpreted and what I am doing wrong. I hate ambiguous generic declarations lol. If I am going to get feedback on something I want it to be explicit and detailed lol.

I think a lot of us have at least reached better awareness of when we are applying the method and are quicker to notice when we are deviating from it.

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I guess my thinking is that if Richard who is an authority (in terms of experiential capability) sees this entire forum (one dedicated to the practice of the actualism method) as not practicing the very method, that seems worrying indeed!

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Yes, I think existentially rather than ocularly/physically is probably a good way of describing it @claudiu. Either way it was quite astounding. Recently I’ve begun to question the dichotomy, but that’s another story. And no definitive experience of infinitude in their presence, but I did experience what I would call near infinitude and expansiveness.

@Kub933 Richard and Vineeto do check out the forum a bit, but not as assiduously as in the old days. I guess it is a bit of a bombshell. It throws up more questions than answers for me. Is it that people mostly post about difficulties and obstacles like Henry said - thus giving an inaccurate picture of how happy they are? Are people going too much into investigative hand-wringing rather than the happy and harmless? Has there been a drift into actualist identity rather than the bare bones - ‘feeling good each moment again’? Or does Richard just have a really high standard? :grin:

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@son_of_bob that’s a good point. People do start at different levels and have different challenges.

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Right yeah, it’s not like I will be posting in my journal - 20/05/2023 - 9:00-12:00 I was enjoying and appreciating, it was great, 12:00-12:30 I was feeling bad but 12:30-5:30 I was enjoying and appreciating once more :laughing:

It seems the format of a forum/journal lends itself to writing about questions/difficulties, various explorations/investigations (which typically will be detailing the structures of the grim and glum real world) and jotting down various realisations (once again things dealing with the inner world).

I do wonder if there is something key that is being missed though that Richard is referring to. Like you say perhaps the general vibe on the forum is getting too dragged into actualist identities or too lost in an investigation heavy approach as opposed to the simplicity of feeling good each moment again.

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The one thing I see in myself, something that I have been observing for a while, is a split.

As in currently as it stands I have not made the commitment to feeling good each moment again for the rest of my life.

If my being was a pie chart, it’s split into something like 1/2 commitment to feeling good and 1/2 commitment to basically the things that matter to ‘me’ as a ‘persona’, whether it’s related to my goals in martial arts or just general schemes and dreams.

Therefore there is inevitably a pull in opposite directions. Perhaps this is the reason for this oscillation that I wrote about. Like I will spend a certain amount of time in a place where only enjoyment and appreciation is paramount, and then I will revert back to living in the ‘other mode’ where the schemes and dreams are paramount.

Is it a case of something a bit more extreme needed, a decision to commit to 1 thing only, I wonder.

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Well guys think if it like this. If you were doing the actualism method you would know you were. And then you would simply know Richard is mistaken, so there wouldn’t be any feelings of doubt or wondering what he means etc. If his generic evaluation triggers something for you then maybe at least a seed of truth to it eh? Something to investigate perhaps?

Well there you go! :smile:

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Haha I just remembered a scene from my childhood. Must have been 1st or 2nd grade. I was staring at my report card which had an S for satisfactory (3rd from the top of E for Excellent and G for Good) or something, and wondering what my parents would think of this disappointing turnout, and I suddenly realized that it was just totally arbitrary! Just numbers and letters!

A kid next to me saw it and said something like “what are you going to do?” given this bad news, and I replied “It’s just a grade.” as in it didn’t matter. And his eyes widened and his mouth hung open in shock! He had clearly never even contemplate such a possibility.

However I now recall that my new discovery seemed too dangerous or out of the ordinary to continue with — indeed it would be leaving the herd of those who submit to authority — so I promptly resubmitted to said authority and forgot all about it.

My life may have indeed turned out differently if I had made a different decision then! It’s all working out well so far though.

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Yeah this is the crux of it for me too but I’ll speak for myself here a bit :grin:…My split is something like this :

45% is try to get back to feeling good

45% is a sort of confused way…oh this issue cropped up in my daily life…how do I tackle it?..shall I tackle it via some real world paradigm like raising my voice or wait I’m an actualist so leme try some third alternative

10% is trying to self immolate…do some deep contemplation about PI, the universe

It was a really good jolt to read Srinaths message today morning !

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Haha yes a good jolt indeed! Definitely lots to explore here for me and I am already seeing things clearer, will write more as soon as I am done with this hen do! :smile:

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Ok so here is what I’m thinking so far.

@claudiu I think my terms might be a little unclear so it might be a case of tidying things up first.

But regarding the commitment to feeling good each moment again for the rest of one’s life. If this is to be the deciding factor for whether someone is indeed practicing the actualism method or not.

I can see that when I came back to actualism and decided to commit properly I made some kind of commitment, it was not the above commitment though. It was a commitment to become an actualist, to the best extent I could as an identity. It was a commitment on the level of social identity. To go and do this thing called actualism, at that time it was the most sincere commitment I could muster. It was not a commitment where the entirety of my being committed to feeling good each moment again for the rest of my life - this is the commitment that I still have not made.

Now if one genuinely commits all of oneself to feeling good each moment again for the rest of one’s life, then by virtue of said genuine commitment one would indeed be feeling good each moment again with any momentary diversion from this being rectified by the mere noticing that one is no longer feeling good, in short one would be living in virtual freedom.

Now if one was to say - I am genuinely committed to feeling good each moment again for the rest of my life and then spend any considerable length of time doing anything but that, then the commitment is not genuine. It’s like saying I am genuinely committed to never drinking again and then having a sip here and there every day.

So in a very long winded way, I just don’t see how establishing a genuine commitment to feeling good each moment again for the rest of one’s life is the minimum bar for practicing the actualism method.

Now with the ‘shallow commitment’ that I have made, I still find myself going for extended periods of time feeling good each moment again, so what am I doing if not practicing the method during those times? There will be times where I fall off the horse for a considerable amount of time, probably because I have not made a genuine commitment. Yet who on here could say that they have? That is a high standard indeed!

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The other bit I was thinking, regarding the split. So I noticed that on top of this ‘shallow commitment’ that I made. What I have been doing is essentially using actualism to feed back into my social identity. And actually now that I think of it, without generalising too much, this is probably something most of us are doing.

Essentially I want to be feeling good each moment again for the rest of my life as long as X.

Therefore the method is being bottlenecked and forced to work in a framework where it can’t!

So indeed there is something to this commitment, to putting feeling good each moment again for the rest of my life in front of everything else.

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Well I’ll refer to the note on the flowchart which I added due to Vineeto’s suggestion:

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So it would indicate it only works if you make the commitment — it would explain why the feeling good isn’t 100% or even 99% but more like 45% for example.

As has been said before, there’s no such thing as a part-time actualist!

Right

I guess no one — which would mean Richard’s assessment is accurate

Yes and faced with this high standard there’s two choices:
1- give up cause it’s too high and settle for second or third best etc , ie fail without trying
2- take up the challenge to live up to it and have a possibility to reap the rewards!

As an analogous example. A PCE has high standards as well. To qualify for a PCE it has to be total identity abeyance. Someone who hasn’t had a PCE and has failed for years to have one might be tempted to just give up and stop trying or intending to have one. But then one gives up the possibility of having it and everything that entails!

More sensible to figure out where and why one is falling short and rectify it, non?

It’s not to say everything everyone does here is wasted effort or totally useless or doesn’t benefit our lives etc. Just that it isn’t the actualism method

It might explain why no actually free people since @Srinath and @geoffrey , non?

So why no commitment yet? Maybe it’s a hesitance to “do it exactly like Richard and Vineeto and Peter did it”, ie fear of being a clone or in a cult or a Richardist (that old objection)? This seems to be part of it for me. Wanting to maintain some supposed “individuality” lol. But it’s silly to think one would lose one’s individuality just for doing something someone else has proven works, isn’t it …

Cheers,
Claudiu

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