Kuba: Hi Vineeto,
Kuba: And all this is kind of weird, in a mind-boggling way. It reminds me of what Richard wrote that once actually free he saw that he had been here all this time simply having a ball. I can kind of see this, that on one hand ‘I’ am carrying ‘my’ burden and yet there is everything already happening of its own accord in actuality… Also those words “cause and effect was left behind in the land of lament”, that keeps coming up too when I am having these experiences. (link)
Vineeto: I think you inadvertently slipped into Zen spirituality and/or Quantum theory – cause and effect is operating perfectly here in the actual world. What disappears is the imaginary ‘logic’ of the spiritual imaginary realm and the supposed ‘logic’ of Quantum theory of the equally imaginary realm, together with the various narratives/ scams spawned from that.
Kuba: This is the quote I was referring to (link):
Richard Yes, that is when that momentum is rolling. You are not setting the pace any more. (…). One feels alive, vital, dynamic. Things happen. One can no longer distinguish between me doing it and it happening to me. They happen simultaneously … cause and effect are left behind in the Land of Lament. It is absolutely thrilling.
Kuba: And I was thinking about this yesterday, and it seems it is to do with time as it happens in actuality, in that all events only take place now. So as the ‘do-er’ “cause and effect” happens across the present-future continuum. In that as the ‘do-er’ ‘I’ set a plan in motion which will apparently ensure an outcome in the future. Like with the dishes, ‘I’ decide ‘I’ will ‘do’ it in the present and then ‘I’ have a distance to cross until the resolution in the future - that is the ‘weight’ of the burden. And yet when ‘I’ as the ‘do-er’ step aside ‘I’ notice that it all happens now, there is no distance to cross hence there is no burden to carry.
Of course effects are being caused by actions otherwise nothing would ever happen haha but it’s more that there is no distance between now and then to travel. Does that make any more sense without Zen spirituality / quantum theory?
Essentially it is that for the ‘do-er’ the cause is what ‘I’ ‘do’ in the present and the effect is what ‘I’ hope for in the future. And in fact this feature is what I have been the most fascinated about, that it all happens now and so ‘I’ am not needed to be ‘doing’ life, it is already happening. Perhaps it is correct to say that in actuality both cause and effect happen now, whereas in reality there is a ‘lag’, this ‘lag’ is the burden that ‘I’ carry as the ‘do-er’, it takes effort for ‘me’ to continually cross that distance.
The way I have been experiencing it today is rather fascinating, in that as soon as ‘I’ begin to engage in that - let’s say “cause then effect” manner, there is the experience of things already happening, and so that whole mechanism of ‘me’ moving from ‘here’ to ‘there’ becomes still born. This is like the end of ‘my’ control, as ‘my’ control has no relevance where this moment is already happening. It’s the experience of shifting from existing out of time to being locked securely in time. And it is indeed the case that cause and effect happen simultaneously in actuality, it cannot be any other way! My hands are causing these words to be typed out but there is no separation between the cause happening (fingers doing the typing) and the event taking place (the words being typed out), it all happens now. Whereas in reality it all happens in separate ‘periods’ of time. (link)
Hi Kuba,
Thank you for putting me right. I couldn’t find that quote yesterday. In fact, the original text is only in two places – one is from the Audio-taped Dialogues where the above quote came from and another, which is a bit longer and quite informative as well.
Richard: Becoming free of the human condition is a result of making a curious decision to ‘do it’ – whatever it takes – and once one sets it all in motion a momentum takes over where one realises one has embarked already … and once one has that impetus going one cannot ‘un-set’ the pace. An alacrity takes over and one finds that one has already been doing it and one has no choice in the matter (fascination is almost like ‘I am not doing this – this is happening to me’). This means one is already committed to finding out – it is not that one makes a commitment as one can always break a commitment after a lot of soul-searching – and this commitment one cannot break. There is no pulling back – which is why most people do not want to start – because once one has started one cannot stop. It is a one-way trip … that is the thrilling part of it. With application and diligence, born out of pure intent, it will happen … one cannot help but become fascinated, for this is the predicament that humankind has been agonising over for aeons. Any reluctance to become fascinated is because of the ‘no turning back’ aspect. After fascination comes obsession wherein you cannot leave it alone any more – or rather it does not leave you alone – and that is when that tempo picks you up – an eagerness grips you – and you feel alive, vital, dynamic. Things happen of a serendipitous nature. One can no longer distinguish between me doing it and it happening to me. They happen simultaneously – cause and effect are left behind in the Land of Lament – and it is absolutely thrilling. Then one is fully doing this business of being alive – doing it here on this earth in this lifetime as this body – and it is all happening now. This moment is happening and I am doing it and the doing is happening of itself and I am the experiencing of the happening. Then one is in this propitious state of being able to say: ‘I am the doing of what is happening’.
And this is wonderful. (Richard, AF List, No. 7, 18 Feb 1999).
You are correct, the ‘cause and effect’ are left behind because things happen simultaneously and spontaneously – which, of course, does not mean that the rules of physics are put out of action. It is always only now, this moment, no time-lapse where to insert any affective valuation or hesitation or excitement to slow down or speed up, no control.
It’s like your story with the kitchen which was tidied without you having emotionally interfered with by objecting or lamenting. It just happened and it was perfect.
And you can always polish the report of what happened in hindsight if you find it “rather convoluted in the end”. (link)
What a wonderful way of being alive.
So yes, it’s a perfect quote.
Cheers Vineeto