Vineeto: Ah, this is a valuable insight – the very reason why so many have resistance to enjoy and appreciate being alive – one could diminish one’s ‘bank account’ in the afterlife, the “other place”, if one has too much fun here on earth. [Emphasis added].
Kuba: Haha what a brilliant way to put it! This hits bullseye exactly why I cannot quite allow it fully, that if I was to fully enjoy and appreciate this moment of being alive I would be “diminishing my bank account elsewhere”. It seems it is the thrust of ‘surviving’ itself, that ‘I’ invest in ‘surviving’ as an identity, which means ‘I’ pay into that bank account ‘elsewhere’.
Hi Kuba,
Peter discovered early on that everyone has a spiritual outlook on life –
• [Peter]: ‘When I was leaving the spiritual world and began to really investigate what others had to say about the human condition, I was amazed to discover that everyone – and I do mean everyone – has a spiritual outlook on life. The spiritual viewpoint permeates philosophy, science, medicine, education, psychology, law, etc.’ [emphasis added]. (Library, Topics, Spiritual).
It was hotly questioned and discussed on the Actual Freedom Mailing List in 2004 – here are some examples –
(Richard, AF List, No. 60b, 13 Apr 2004) and follow-up correspondences
(Richard, AF List, No. 27h, 1 Apr 2004) and follow-up correspondences
(Richard, AF List, No. 67, 10 May 2004) and follow-up correspondence
In summary Richard explained –
• [Richard]: ‘Even though metaphysics has been spiritual from the very beginning, and in the long run it really does not matter which term is used to describe the instinctive/ intuitive outlook of ‘me’ as soul (‘me’ at the core of ‘my’ being … which is ‘being’ itself), the usage of the word ‘spiritual’ as Peter means it – ‘of, pertaining to, or affecting the spirit or soul’ (Oxford Dictionary) – is more direct and to the point. (Richard, AF List, No. 27h, 13 Apr 2004).
You are spot on with your discovery that “the thrust of ‘surviving’ itself, that ‘I’ invest in ‘surviving’ as an identity” is in order for your soul to survive in a ‘rewarding’ afterlife.
Kuba: The belief in god or the afterlife is gone, this kind of belief was also part of that ‘high achiever’ mentality, or what I called a ‘grind mentality’, or in fact even the thing of ‘delayed gratification’, it is all the same flavour isn’t it? It comes from the old paradigm where one is saving oneself for some other time/ place, one suffers now for a reward in the future. But as it is always now one ends up suffering forever and the future never comes, it cannot for it is not actual. (link)
Given that everybody has a spiritual outlook on life, due to the trickle-down effect of enlightenment having been considered the summum bonum of human experience, the “saving oneself for some other time/ place” can take many forms. In your case it is that of a “high achiever”, also very prevalent in Western countries is the ‘Protestant work-ethic’, suffering “now for a reward in the future”, whilst in Eastern countries people are waiting for a better incarnation or in Japan, Korea, China desire to take an honoured place amongst their ancestors. What they all have in common is that enjoying this moment of being alive is nowhere to be found. Ironically, the actualism method is often subverted into an ‘actualist’ morality to prevent the very enjoyment and appreciation which could facilitate their freedom from the human condition.
Vineeto: So, isn’t it finally time to take Geoffrey’s suggestion and “take off their clothes, and swim through the sea?” Time to abandon the limits and actualize your insights and go map-less. You have nothing to lose but your shackles.
Kuba: Yes you are correct, it is the time for this, and looking at my above post that was still sandpit actualism, more of second best. It looks like this is a habit but it is time for it to be broken. (link)
It is wonderful you found a way to break the spell. Now finally naiveté can fully flourish.
Cheers Vineeto