The other interesting thing is something that @claudiu has mentioned a while back with regards to Pure intent. That once the connection is established there is a certain safety that is fundamentally there no matter what is going on or what emotional dramas are happening. This is very much how I have been experiencing all this. There is fear and discontent at ‘my’ security crumbling away, it is like an inconvenience on ‘my’ demands. However it seems like it is not possible for me to ever truly fall into despair anymore.
I can totally relate to this… Personally I’ve now again touched upon that sorrowful place which Craig helped me resolve last year. But this time I’m not afraid. I don’t resist and I no longer need a Craig to help me fix anything. No matter my approach of letting myself fully feel… whatever it is I feel… and no matter where this will lead - matters not:
I feel safe…
I can’t call it pure intent since I have no tangible experience of this palpable force of life. But at least it’s my intent and that’s good enough for me. In fact this intent of mine has been so good to me, that I no longer have the desire to know what pure intent is like. Having my own intent is all I’ll ever need… that’s how it feels.
It sounds like ‘you’ have cleverly found a way to allow yourself not to continue in the actuality direction (the direction where ‘you’ are no more). Which is fine of course, it is your choice. And sounds like it is better than being afraid. But I just inform you here to let you know that it is indeed the choice you’re making
@claudiu I much appreciate your concerns. The thing is this: I’m here more making a reference to my fantasies of what I’d imagine pure intent to be like. Also hasn’t the thought occured to you that my intent might acctually be pure intent? Even though I’m forever locked out from knowing it… in it’s purity… and thus in it’s true taste - since I’m still so very much here… in the way of… seeing/being it?
My intent certainly isn’t a feeling… So my choice of words: “that’s how it feels” is only making reference to this intent… which isn’t a feeling at all. It would only be at false if I were to find a grain of motivation, desire, drive… feeling… in it. These phenomena still occurs, but my own attempts of doing anything are immediately dropped when seeing the silliness of trying to go back to that of ‘my old ways’.
Now, I only have one intent (the word ‘direction’ has references to ‘going somewhere’ as if I were to ‘go’ anywhere at all.) and that is: TO BECOME HAPPY AND HARMLESS - COME WHAT MAY! Why would this have bells of alarm ringing for anyone?
But just in case, let me also ask @geoffrey@Srinath Are you guys concerned about me? Doest thou lie sleepless in the darkness of the night… wondering… about my whereabouts?
Sorry @Kub933 I mean no disrespect ‘deralling’ your safe place like this.
I think a sincere intent is the best one can start with especially when somebody has no recall of a PCE or hasn’t had an experience of pure intent yet.
I think you’re on to something here. Because I find that we feeling beings have this tendency of getting too attached to fantasies of PCE’s, pure intent and all that which… is… when we are not. I think that for those like me, having little experience of anything that feels good, and even less, having the experience of an PCE - would benefit from poiting to… what we can have right now… and as you say:
Sincere intent
I know what the method is about… feeling good… but I’d also like to believe that mastering the method doesn’t necessarily have to have anything to do with becoming actually free. (Hey @geoffrey you hear me!? I’ve relentlessly studied your old crap over at Slack. I’ve studied your damn dusty old map but never ever did it give me any slack! I’m so done with the words [maps] of other feeling beings… and I don’t think I’ll ever read you again. )
I’d like to prove this point through my own journey if I may?
It cannot be pure intent without a PCE. It’s that simpel, really.
It can be sincere intent/strong intent etc. which is good enough (propelling force), but at one point pure intent (impelling force) will become absolutely necessary. Your basically in “trust-mode” which is fine, but there will come a point where trust isn’t good enough. Your trajectory may become unstable or you lack energy to come out from “under the water”.
A good indication of your “success” is always to look if it works. Is it repeatable?
Are you becoming more happy and harmless, or not?
If you feel better then before then it works to some degree. Then stick with it.
If you see that your baseline stays the same for several months, then adjustment is necessary.
Your basically in “trust-mode” which is fine, but there will come a point where trust isn’t good enough. Your trajectory may become unstable or you lack energy to come out from “under the water”.
Now here’s where you project your own ideas unto me. Because I put no trust in anything I’m like a dying man that has ran out of options here. There’s nothing else for me to do… my intent was never a question of trust. Oh I know trust very well from my spiritual days and being in the abyss (the dark night of the soul). I have had trust… No, this hasn’t anything at all to do with… trust… It simply was the only thing left to do… and now… my soul is attached to this intent i playfully call mine… Why do you old people have to be so freaking serious about this stuff?
This is why this is semantics because It’s so hard to accurately describe what this intent is when it’s not a feeling pulling me towards it… I’m like a moth in the night pulled towards it’s light. I cannot stop because you feelings being say so… And @claudiu I certainly won’t make a pause, reading that tombe of knowledge which you now have posted - especially so when I’ve made it clear that I’m no longer going to read the very down to earth words of geoffrey himself.
No.
@Kub933 Again I apologize for derailling your safe place. I think we are pretty much done here now. They are saying it’s not semantics and I’m saying it is… and you know what Kub933: I like to tease them a little with the choice of my words - they can’t see past the ‘my’ part . All along… since I started my own journal I have secretly waited for them to jump unto these words of mine!: My intent… I hope you don’t harbor any harmful feelings towards me for doing so. Now Let’s pray that geoffrey and srinath doesn’t want to engage in this any further, shall we?
Haha. You mistake sincerity for seriousness . It is a sincere concern of mine. But not a serious one.
Did any of us tell you to stop? Perhaps you are being too serious yourself here
It’s up to you what you do with the advice, of course, including to ignore it. Also I never said you weren’t experiencing pure intent. Maybe you are. If so maybe you will get to know it better and eventually come to see why it is sensible not to call it ‘my’.
What I am saying essentially is for you to be sure it is not ‘you’, that this what you are calling “pure intent” is indeed outside of ‘you’.
Of course you can call it “‘my’ intent” even if it is not “my intent” but then that is confusing, non? Is it really a matter of “seriousness”? If the only way to not be confusing is to be ‘serious’ then it would be a sad universe we live in. Luckily it is not so !
I had absolutely no reference point for a PCE or pure intent when starting, so I had to make do with my own sincere intent. The best alternative that I could offer without experiential confidence or verification of the other possibilities.
Whereas for me, I understood that the PCE and pure intent were describing states that I did not experientially know but I set about seeing if I could discover them for myself. However, I can see the risk for somebody being insincere with themselves or making a genuine mistake and thinking their sincere intent is that which is described.
As I have mentioned before, as an atheist I have always additionally been a person without trust, especially for the subjective experiences of others. However, when I read the words of somebody describing something I haven’t experienced before, I can discern from my own experiences how alike or unalike my experiences are with that which is described. And I can ask questions and probe as to those things or aspects of it that seem incredulous. So, before ever having a panic attack I had no clue as to what this was experientially like but I had read descriptions. In reality, the descriptions lacked sufficient depth to convey the deeper nature of the experience once I had one. But I was able to convey my experience of a panic attack and compare it with the descriptions of those who had described it, and reach a consensus. Yes, I have experienced a panic attack.
For me, experiencing a PCE and pure intent was equivalent.
For example, take a particular description from Richard:
Richard]: “Pure intent is derived from the purity of the PCE (which is when ‘I’ spontaneously cease to ‘be’) and everything is experienced to be perfect as-it-is at this moment and place … here and now.
As I had never had a PCE when I started I knew it was not possible for me to experience something derived from an experience I had never had. I mean there is no need for semantics here.
I can see in myself trying to chase the memory rather than trying to be sincerely happy and harmless right now in this moment as this flesh and blood body. Like to relive a past moment of a PCE. I have lost that frame of reference from my PCE and the golden clew of that pure intent. That sense of inevitability and destiny.
I started with AF without a recall for a PCE, as I have mentioned before. I had to sincerely admit that maybe that maybe there was something better than the creative highs and fantasy worlds I had become attached too. It is not easy to be sincere at first. So, easy to lie to yourself or divide yourself.
I like what Peter had communicated about the three possible outcomes to discovering about the prima facie case that one has to build for one self, for why we are going to attempt to do this thing…in the beginning one can do the following:
Peter: Given the three basic options at the start, – objecting, waiting or jumping in – this map or summary outline only becomes relevant for those wanting to journey on the path to Actual Freedom.
I have oscillated between the 3 personally, even going from jumping in to objecting again or more waiting.
Peter: As we have already stated, the path has a definable mid stage of Virtual Freedom and it is useful to review what we know about the experiences of those who have so far reached this stage. A variety of incentives to begin on the path have become obvious: for Richard the horror of war and a significant PCE, for me the death of my son and the memory of a PCE, for Vineeto the lure of living with someone in genuine peace, harmony and equity, and for another a glimpse of actual intimacy in a PCE and a stubborn refusal to settle for second best. For those considering following the third alternative, a common thread is the need to establish a prima facie case that what is on offer makes sense, that it is intelligent, that it is based on facts, that it has integrity and that it means what it says.
For me, eventually it was a combination of things that got me on board, being based on facts and seeming sensible and reasonable. I was also beginning to understand the illusory nature of self and emotions and everything else that I had ever loved or valued seemed too conditional in comparison to what was being offered. The idea of being unconditionally happy and harmless sounded an optimal state, even if a part of me felt it was like Icarus flying into the sun.
Peter: Having acknowledged that there is a prima facie case for beginning on the path, one then needs to begin – to dare to push off from the familiar and safe and begin the process of the moment to moment investigation of one’s own psyche. The way to begin is simply to make becoming actually happy and harmless the primary aim in one’s life.
It is the acknowledging of aggression in oneself that is the key to wanting to change irrevocably. If one only wants happiness for oneself then that is insufficient motive or intent to get stuck into the business of irrevocably changing oneself. It needs an altruistic motive rather than the mere self-gratification of being happy and that motive is to be actually peaceful – to do no harm to one’s fellow human beings, as in not instinctually feeling aggression towards others, not instinctually feeling sorrow for others, not being blindly driven to nurture others and not being blindly driven to desire power over others.
I sincerely reached a point when I didn’t want to cause harm and add to the collective suffering. Not to say that I wouldn’t still err and not be harmful but there was a genuine attempt to muster sincerity to stop these same old same old behaviours.
Peter: The initial investigations will depend on one’s predilections, the particular issues that are most pressing or most obvious to tackle.
In this sense, one will have discoveries and certain proclivities unique to them this is what in that sense makes ones journey their own.
I personally broke it down like this:
Do I have to feel bad? Maybe not…then eventually experiential realisation that I am not at the whim of negative emotions. I don’t have to invest in those bad feelings.
Can I feel happy? Maybe not…I only know how to be happy chasing the types of highs I know…I don’t know about this felicity. Eventually, I found myself able to experience being happy and felicitous. I knew it was within my capability to get back to this state, sometimes easier than others.
Can I be harmless? Can I let the aggression and malice go through me without suppressing and repressing but seeing and knowing it and not acting out on it, not being at the mercy of it. Eventually, experientially, I saw that I could do this. I would still fail and still do but I am becoming more aware and less harmful. An experiential confidence building.
Can I experience an EE? I had a reference point for these, I knew I had experienced these throughout my life from childhood, teenage years and young adulthood. Yes I can, a sort of momentum from that felicity and sensuousness. A confidence of what that state is and the trajectory to get there.
Can I experience a PCE? At first I had nothing but the unrecognisable descriptions of other people’s experiences. I really didn’t believe it was something possible, even whilst doubting but sincerely aiming to be happy and harmless I was eventually able to experience such a state. I experienced this state and each time occurring without a frame of reference to know it would happen other than by following the other points in the method, being sincere, happy, harmless, naivete and investigation if or when needed for certain blockers. An experiential confidence was then established that such a state was possible. That these words were more than just mere descriptions.
Can I be actually free? Can these PCE states be extended to be the perpetual experience for this flesh and blood body? Well to be continued lol
I’ve had some interesting experiences the past few days that I wanted to write about :
The first one happened a couple of days ago when I was in the kitchen getting ready for work. It was a very brief seeing but the aftermath of this has been quite huge.
Very briefly I saw that ‘I’ have never existed in any way shape or form, I saw this so directly and so concretely that it was mind-blowing. The fact that ‘I’ have no existence whatsoever, even to call ‘myself’ a ghost is to ascribe some sort of spiritual form, but even this is not seeing the situation clearly. The fact is that ‘I’ do not exist even in the slightest, no such thing AT ALL. I actually struggle to find the correct words to describe the utter non-existence of ‘me’, although ‘I’ am still here apparently writing these words lol
This seeing has been working its way in my day to day life since.
The other thing that has really increased in frequency lately is the rememoration of PCEs, it is like it is constantly happening ‘by accident’ during the day. I will be doing something and I will dip into a place that immediately becomes familiar and BAM out of nowhere there is a memory of perfection that is being tasted now. This also seems to happen a lot when I am having my naps and just as I am falling asleep. It is so funny that when I first found actualism I was so doubtful about ever having childhood PCEs and now it is like the memories of those are being unlocked right left and centre! It makes sense why I always knew deep down that what Richard spoke of is genuine.
The thing that this rememoration has been leading to as well is that I seem to find it easier and easier to orient myself towards Actuality, like my antennas are more primed to find it now. The way this has been happening mostly is these brief flashes of experiencing this universe as being utterly pure and perfect, there is a certain clean and crisp perfection to it as opposed to the heady and thick nature of reality, it is so funny as well that this place is so familiar! It goes back to the fact that I have walked around in it so many times when I was younger, I had somehow blocked it out though, its bizarre.
The last thing that comes to mind is what I was experiencing this morning when I woke up, I have been quite tired lately like my brain needs a ton of rest, it seems like it is working away constantly, processing things. I did have plenty of sleep last night and I woke up experiencing myself in a whole different world, it reminded me of the 25 min PCE I had last year when I contemplated what it would be like if ‘I’ never came back. I remember seeing that it is like this body would simply continue being in this actual world and there would be no reality to go back to, it simply never existed.
But the outstanding thing about seeing all this (and this is what I saw this morning) is that the actual world is literally a whole other world. I sometimes ‘picture’ actuality as just behind some thick and cloudy feelings and beliefs like if I clean up reality enough I will see actuality. But this is not so at all! ‘I’ exist completely locked away from the actual world, in some weird psychic bubble that exists nowhere and nowhen. When this bubble disappears I literally find myself in a whole new world, how incredible!
And even more incredible — that whole new world is the only one that factually , actually exists! That “other” world is actually the “primary” world. The ‘normal’ world is really the ‘other’ one (as actually non-existent as ‘you’ are).
Holy shit, this has struck a chord with me. The thought seems thrilling and frightening…
Is the rememoration like a spontaneous thing then?
I think I have done this too. Like the method is the window wipers of a car cleaning the car windows of squashed bugs until everything is clear and crisp. So, I think that I have some part to play and will make it happen. I am becoming aware of my internal workings more…this “me-ness”…it is weird. I just need that bubble to burst again lol.
It sounds like there is a lot of changes going on for everybody at the moment. Like a momentum building up.
Yeah it seems spontaneous, it is like I begin to be drawn towards something (I am usually delighting at this point) and then a memory pops up, like it is unlocked. I don’t know if it is that I taste perfection first which opens up the memory or if the memory leads to me tasting perfection but they seem to coincide. There is no forcing in all this at all though which makes it quite fun because lately it is happening more and more often of its own accord.
Yes that is a good way to describe it and it seems that no matter how clean I make this window ‘I’ am still locked away, the moment I find myself in the actual world is like I have stepped out of the car and found myself in a whole new world, one that could never be seen whilst looking out through the window, and looking back the car has disappeared also!
This one is a funny one, I remember talking to @JonnyPitt on Skype and mentioning I wasn’t that bothered about PCEs anymore because I am aiming for self immolation now and he said that he remembered thinking the same thing 5 years ago
I had a vision of the members of this forum being a swirling vortex of a piece of ‘humanity’, swirling around the center “point” of actuality, and as time goes on more ‘people’ join in and start spiraling in as well, maybe eventually it’ll be a giant vortex that consumes all of ‘humanity’!!!
I am getting a better understanding of what it at play and how I have approached things incorrectly in the past. Thinking there was someway I could bring about this rememoration, chasing the past again totally devoid of current time awareness let alone being happy and harmless.
I was going to say this too you beat me to it. I am finding myself very good at getting current time awareness now of what is operating in me, I find I get myself back to this okishness state before I managed to get back to a more happier/felicitous/fascinated state. The okishness is still better than some extremely negative or positive state, but in this okishness I am starting to find myself perplexed as to my inner workings. Noticing this virtual self that I talk to, like two me’s having a conversation.
Still better than Srid’s total dismissal of anything of any value happening here. Zero progress in this heavily censored chat room.
Wonderful, @son_of_bob ,that means genuine self enquiry; I am going to orient myself toward doing the
same.
Btw, reading this recent post, I got jealous and upset feelings about Kuba’s progress,. And started some investigation into myself ( and an internal conversation as you mentioned )
and it was easy to come back to feeling good.
. It is a sincere concern of mine. But not a serious one.
I am finding myself very good at getting current time awareness now of what is operating in me, I find I get myself back to this okishness state before I managed to get back to a more happier/felicitous/fascinated state. The okishness is still better than some extremely negative or positive state, but in this okishness I am starting to find myself perplexed as to my inner workings. Noticing this virtual self that I talk to, like two me’s having a conversation.