Making that moment to moment decision to return one’s thinking back to that ordinary “feeling good, thanks” place.
All the issues will return in seconds, but the difference is your thinking is now closer to your native intelligence, and in doing this, that place in your mind has the high ground.
Make the issues come to a feeling good you, don’t go to them and become a feeling bad you.
One of these works in hours to sort something out, one of these never works at all.
It’s not really thinking that is the problem, but the thinking self. The thinking self or Ego/SI often tries to interfere with your feelings, tries to moderate or manipulate them constantly.
This distinction is important, because you will need thinking to connect the right dots and end beliefs, false concepts etc. Otherwise they will go on forever and a day.
But I get what you want to convey here.
Which is why engaging that “thinking self or Ego/SI” in remembering the ironclad, bold lettered commitment to feeling good.
Otherwise it’s just going to be an absolute uphill slog putting stars in the darkness of that abyss.
Once that commitment is in place, and not even particularly worrying about feeling any better than OK to start with, go and do something else. Get a “I’m good, thank Larry” level of feeling good going, then…
Neither express or repress that feeling that will inevitably still be there. Then we are poking holes from the top, metaphorically speaking, rather than having the “thinking ego self” immersed in the darkness.
I am loving the metaphor of that commitment being a stake I drove into the ground and then to have tethered my “thinking ego self” to it.
The metaphor works quite well if you plan on exploring abysses.
The first rule when getting stuck in a hole is to stop digging.
The temptation which has been why here I am 10 years later is to “skip the boring bit” and get digging!
I’m happy Andrew that you saw through the belief of the abyss on your ‘lunch break’ a few months ago. 
I almost wish that I had done that too when I was going through this experience at the peak of it’s intensity. Here experiencing feelings that the common man is forever locked out from ever experiencing - stuff that I in my wildest imagination never could have dreamt of ever feeling. The excruciating pain of the soul sometimes taken to such extremes, that I was stunned…flabbergasted… that it was even possible to experience what I was going through… and to still be alive… it was unreal… My ordeal was so severe that I couldn’t even relate to other people’s accounts of dark nights et al., seeing what they had gone through sounded like a sunday picnic - a sort of joke.
It was a very very real experience… more real than anything before and after in my entire life. It was as real as the souls thirst for love and my craving for oneness with God. Divine love… Which is also an entierly different ball game than the concept of romantic love I’ve seen discussed in another thread.
The craving for oneness…. to merge with another me in the act of union… Love… (this still saddens me and brings a tear to my eye… that I lack this.).
The spiritual side of things seems to be closely knit to the very core of one’s being and thus I pray… that I too… one day will be able to see through these phenomena as easily as you did on that day when having an ‘eureka moment’ at lunch. 
@John I say so much that I don’t remember saying it being at lunch, but it was definitely something which had the effect of taking the teeth out of the abyss. It was tied into the whole religious upbringing which had created an Abyss out of maybe a normal abyss. Or maybe all abysses are the same and I just wanted mine to be a special one.
You know, for reasons.
I am curious, have you been exposed to Christianity growing up?
I agree, but there is another combination available.
The above is really not important if pure intent is active and working. That remembrance is replaced by an intimate knowing.
From this position it is absolutely fine to be/indulge in the sadest emotions possible, because they happen in front of a perfect and pure background so to speak. All feelings, no matter how profound, happen in a stable velocity, without the danger of spiraling into something completely absurd.
With pure intent + not repressing nor expressing all emotions inevitably cease after a while and change into something other. It’s like a battery that has to discharge. After the discharge one can look closer into it = thinking/making connections
I can hardly remember a time where pure intent was not active, not a given. So I have to be careful with my advice regarding how to operate without it.
Is it a sensible approach to be one’s feelings completely without that background?
I really don’t know.
Yes, that has been my thinking, that this approach to seperating out the decision itself as a metaphorical “stake in the ground” with be replaced by the connection to pure intent, when I can make it. Hopefully soon.
I particularly like your description here. I will link it over to thread I started on the topic.
I would say that it was a 10 year lunch break. As whatever moment of seeing happened when I began to contemplate that the perceived depth was imaginary, was preceded by 10 years of actualism interest, and 36 years of life before that.
Which is why, if you can short cut any need for prayer with your own commitment (as you had already seen and made weeks ago), that hoped for “seeing through” will be very soon.
Not to say prayers wouldn’t work, in that any intention with enough repetition would do the trick. It would be a case of misappropriation when the “miracle” came, but the main thing is it came.
It’s already a miracle you are here, with a bit of magic and self-made luck, who knows just how good your life will be.
No. I don’t think that you get what I mean. My insight acctually includes the things you’re saying is a ‘good thing’.
I don’t want to spend the rest of my life having the realizations coming from trying to untie the ‘knots’ within myself which I’ve come to believe that I need to solve, before I can take the next step on my path.
Alan seemed comfortable doing this… Always looking for ‘shiny rocks’ to study along the way. As he found these ‘rocks’ or so called ‘problems’ (right dots/beliefs/false concepts) he took an comfortable pause, sat down by side of the road and spent his time studying these interesting rocks (right dot/beliefs/false concepts). I still remember this one time, after all those years, when he still got childishly excited and felt that he had to write a post about him not enjoying watching the Television.
How silly isn’t that? 
I believe more in the approach of freedom has no conditions. Whatever belief/concept etc. that’s lost along the way, will be lost in due time and by itself (as happened when I stoped crying about my dead mother). How many ‘shiny rocks’ is one to collect and discard before one is set free? No. I’m not at all interested in rocks laying around along the way.
I want to feel… and I want to further immerse myself in this moment of being alive. That’s all I want. I’m not a Rubik’s cube to be solved… before I go…
Dear diary
Yesterday I nipped something in the bud. Haha, this is really some beginners actualism - but yay I actually did it!
What’s noteworthy is that it all happened automatically. “I” wasn’t even involved in it - it happened just like that. Thus it’s not like “I” was looking for something to nip in the bud or even had this concept in my mind at all. It just happened… I don’t remember exactly what it was. But I remember the thoughts: “same old same old” and the feeling and everything that came with it - got halted at the ‘door step’ - vanished and was gone.
This is what I want… this is truly what I want: Things happening by themselves. To me it’s all about bringing an end to this “I” trying to stay in control ‘watching’ and telling “me” what to do or not to do. I don’t need this daddy “I” and all his seriousness anymore.
Now let me speak of some other matters. Serious matters.
There has been some turmoil going on in my journal lately. This dude named @Andrew has raised alot of criticism against me. This old fella is really onto me with his morals and keeps spamming my journal like a proselyt maniac.
Psst! Don’t tell him but I think much of what he writes are missinterpretations of my texts. I don’t want to start an endless argument so I’ll refrain from pointing out his errors.
But…I’ll say this. Both Andrew and others, seem to object to me being my feelings. They seem to object to me wanting nothing else but to be my feelings (Sounds silly right? ) Like I’m doing something wrong here… and that bad feelings are to be avoided and shunned. It’s almost as if I’m adviced to cry “wolf!” and run for the “feeling good hills” when this happens!
No!
Because what the naysayers don’t realize… is the absolute freedom I’m enjoying. They can’t see that I’m totally ‘off the hook’ from trying to achieve anything. I have no pressure whatsoever to feel anything else but whatever I’m feeling right now. They can’t see that when I actually feel better at times, it happens by itself and because I want to feel something else… and not because some actualist moral and this master “I” is telling me what I should and shouldn’t be doing.
I’m sorry to say to all you naysayers: But I can hardly wait for another episode of the Dark night of the soul… and against Andrews thinking, I’m gonna do it guys! I’m gonna let myself fall down into the darkness of the abyss… and I’m going to be hurting and crying and I’m going to be down there… when it happens… when those stars reappears on the night sky…
Promise.
Now you might say: “What about my intent?” When I’ve felt bad as much as I have done. Unlike Andrew who says he needs to “stop and remember the commitment”. I neither stop in the middle of the road picking up ‘shiny rocks’ nor do I remind myself… of that very day… when I in all of my deepest sincerity wrote about my intent for the very first time. To me those words aren’t some biblical commandment that I need to shove down my own throat, everytime I happen to fall down into the darkness. No… I need no reminders… or intellectual cues about my intent…
I live it.
I pose the following to be sure I understand you well:
Not having any pressure to feel a particular way (bad, good, even felicitous), rather than how you are feeling each moment, is giving you an absolute freedom (as you are “off the hook” from trying to achieve anything); and you are enjoying this freedom.
So right now you might be feeling bad. Since you don’t want to feel any other way than the way you feel (bad), nor try to achieve anything other than be that feeling, this makes you feel free; and this feeling of freedom brings you enjoyment.
So is it correct to say that in that case you feel bad AND you enjoy it at the same time, due to the sensation of freedom that being feeling bad produces in you?
Thank you for your sincere effort of trying to understand me.
I think you’re correct… even though I struggle a little to interpret that last verse of yours. I think this [struggle] has more to do with the process being quite new to me - which means that the ‘freedom’ I’m refering too isn’t with me all the time. Hence and even if my post make it seem so - I’m definately not clear on everything yet. I mean it took me almost an hour to fully be my feelings the other day. But I think it’s fair to say that when I succeed in being my feelings fully, there’s a sort of oneness to it… a oneness which also seem to carry the qualities of freedom and enjoyment.
There’s still an “I” here which means that the old man still keeps interfering with my naiveté and this sensation of freedom. It’s the absence of this “I” and the begining of oneness that brings forth this free sensation and what also seems to be enjoyment.
Oh, I think I understand you better now.
To try to understand a little more, I ask you the following about this part:
Knowing that when you are your feelings there is a kind of oneness, could you describe in more detail what differences do you experience (perceive, feel -emotionally-, feel -physically-; whatever you think is appropriate to convey the state better) between the moments when you succeed in being your feelings and, for example, the rest of that hour when you did not?
Probably this query is more difficult to answer/describe/put into words; do as much as you can/want, of course.
What you ask of me has bothered me quite a bit and I have up until now wraped my mind around this more than I’d like… I did so because I’d like to please you with an answer. I’m sorry to disappoint… but I just don’t get the words to describe it better than I did - no matter how much I try to think about the matter.
My mind is sort of blank.
If this is something I’d ever feel like answering. I’d might get back to you in the future when my experience has matured a bit more.
SHIT
I was sitting on the toilett going deeper into feeling (this moment). Litterally shit! As I sat there just feeling ordinary to the fullest (being my feelings) my thoughts suddenly wandered as by accident and touched upon the subject of:
Love
Divine love, the feeling of not having experienced oneness with another me - that brought a tear to my eye the other day. Here having fullfilled my needs (FYI) it just hit me that: I might not want to experience this at all! That this has only been a desire on a more superficial level - in opposition to what I really crave at the core of my being:
Freedom
Fuck me… This was the first nail in the coffin on the subject of true love… union… oneness… I mean I have never in my life before had even the resemblance of a thought that in any way has poked a hole in my desire for union with another me. This belief has been absolutely bulletproof until now! This is absolutely huge, because connected to the subject of love, exists a wide range of deep spiritual beliefs (discussed with Craig last year) which would all prove to be but sheer nonsense if this house of cards would come crashing down.
Love really was the crown of it all… The most ultimate goal of them all… and today for the first time I had this one stream of thoughts (I don’t remember the exakt thinking) that seemed to poke a small hole in this dream.
This is not an uncommon feature.
Especially after long periods of suppression, repression and explaining feelings away, it feels just good to feel whatever one is feeling.
It can be quite relaxing and very enjoyable to feel bad. It is a conscious feeling bad, which separates it from just feeling bad. It’s the release from control which feels so good.
THE ABYSS
I have often thought of the abyss as being the complete opposite of enlightenment. Instead of experiencing pure bliss, one experiences the other end of the feeling spectrum: The most horrible pain & sadness that a feeling being can ever experience. Unlike Vineeto who wisely turned away from being pulled into it - I didn’t knew what I was doing when I upon my spiritual path relentlessly pushed forwards; in an ever increasing pace… and when I finally understood my whereabouts… it was too late…
The sadness and pain of losing a loved one is as nothing in comparison… And I’ve lost them all; parents, grandparents - you name it and I’ve lost them. The sadness of the abyss (when at it’s peak) was if the whole world had died… I acctually cried for the world and it’s tragedies… at times…
I greif no one… no one at all… Still I experience this all encompassing sadness.
I don’t think I ever left that place in it’s entierty. The sadness that’s so often with me (connected to love) is so vibrant, so very real… and it feels ‘abyssal like’ even though it’s intensity is nothing in comparison to the acute pain and tears that, I went through the first 2,5 years of my experience.
To see through the abyss as an ‘belief’ would be as if an enlightened being would suddenly see through his own enlightenment experience - just like that. I dare say that it’s so real that it would be as if one were to see through the whole of oneself - in the blink of an eye. I just know… that I’ll never fully see the end of this if I don’t got pure intent. Without pure intent one would be forever lost in the dark - like those most psychotic lunatics at some psychiatric ward.
I’ve got my intent
I’ve taken the slow approach: Feeling through every feeling - feeling by feeling. If attentiveness notices resistance, I’m automatically right back in the experience of feeling. Progress to me is not feeling happier, even though I of course do not oppose it. No… progress is less of wanting to change whatever feeling. Progress is when I have less and less thoughts like:
“I’ve spent a month dealing with sadness on and off - when am I going to feel good - when am I to rise up the ‘feeling good ladder’?”
I dare say that I’ve made a lot of progress here. I experience less and less thoughts of wanting to change anything. I also feel that when disappointment and sadness in connection to women hits me - it’s less intense and is less lasting.
In one post the word appreciation snuck it’s way into my writing. After this incident I have somewhat come to think that I acctually need to get to a point, where I appreciate whatever bad feeling… I’d like that… to appreciate my life… For some reason, the word enjoyment has yet to become a part of my experiental understanding. To speak of this word would be an exercise in intellectualism. I just can’t relate to this word yet. In an earlier attempt (in a reply to miguel) I think what I was really feeling was appreciation. I don’t know. I don’t remember how it felt.
It was the divne love towards a woman who threw me into the abyss. My dealings with women hereafter, seem to have something to do with Her… as if the archetype of the One (the beloved) has been working through every woman ever since:
This dream of oneness with another feeling being.
I feel so confident that I’ll prevail. I just don’t know what it means to ‘prevail’ from my current point of view (whereabouts). Whatever doubt perishes at first sight of attentiveness. How can this experience withstand my constant immersion into feeling - this attitude of wanting nothing else but to be my feelings - to be this moment of being alive?
It’s just not possible…
VINEETO: The most important bit of knowledge that I have gleaned from contemplating the demise of my ‘self’ has been, and still is, the purity of my intent as an actualist. Contemplating death or ‘self’-immolation is not something that in itself brings me closer to becoming actually free of malice and sorrow but it certainly gives me a gauge measure to check if I am becoming comfortably numb, settling for second best or hiding in fear.
I found that the best strategy is to check out my intent and then get on with the business of being happy and harmless instead of, for instance, being frightened at the thought of ‘my’ demise. It’s useful to remember that every feeling I indulge in, for whatever ‘noble’ reason, is only going to feed my identity instead of diminishing it.
I have spent many years exploring therapy groups and spiritual feeling states and it was quite a challenge to slowly wake up to the fact that feeling is not identical to actuality – in fact, feeling has nothing to do with actuality. In the past I might have felt harmless but was nevertheless quite harmful in that my ‘self’-centredness inevitably caused ripples in other peoples lives. I found that while I might have felt that I valued peace, I still instinctively acted in attack and defence mode. While I might have felt that I was willing to sacrifice my ego for a higher cause, I was actually cultivating humbleness as a means of soul-istic ‘self’-aggrandizement, and so forth.
Through the rigorous and persistent process of actualism, I slowly learnt to extend my attention beyond what I thought and felt, i.e. my ideals and passions, so as to become aware of the tangible effects that my thoughts, feelings and actions had on the people around me. I discovered more and more that feeling myself to be harmless and actually being harmless were two completely different things. This process of distinguishing between feeling and actuality is the key to actually becoming happy and harmless compared to merely feeling happy and harmless.
I’m saying this because contemplating my demise has been one of my favourite topics since discovering actualism and only lately have I discovered that, while such contemplations can serve to fuel my intent, they don’t bring me closer to the actuality of being free, simply because I am contemplating about a time that is not now.
Which reminds me that Richard always maintained that one cannot think one’s way to freedom nor feel one’s way to freedom – something that I have persistently tried to do. It’s great that there aren’t any rights and wrongs in actualism – given the sincere intent to be free of malice and sorrow all explorations are useful explorations.
RESPONDENT: Today, while showering, the subject popped into my head for the first time in some while, and I was keenly aware that it was the identity that was clinging to that fear, and that this flesh-and-blood shall simply fade away, no fuss, no muss.
VINEETO: When you observe this experience a bit longer you will discover that ‘you’ as an identity are identical to that fear, they are in fact one and the same. ‘I’ am fear and fear is ‘me’. And when fear leaves the stage for a moment, the identity is nowhere to be found and vice versa.
Then there is peace.
That’s golden. Thanks!
As of late, I’ve often contemplated this, that one only need two things (or ‘one’ when put together): sincerity and intent. It’s actually the only thing I’ve come to care about… no matter what I feel…
Funnily the most persistent feelings that earlier has evaded my attentiveness, has been feeling ‘ordinary’ (would perhaps be the word?) when nothing seems to be going on; feeling neutral, ambivalent, dry, dull, not caring much:
“It’s just another day of life.”
“I guess I’m feeling ok.”
With my intent even this becomes interesting to dig into. Currently I’m trying to ramp up my intent. Since I’ve still got moments during the days when sincerity is lacking.
Hi @John your description of the abyss reminds me of my own experiences after my accident especially the two occurrences I felt most close to having a breakdown. It was like I was just totally overwhelmed with emotion like some kind of super onslaught. It wasn’t just fear and dread but intense sorrow, sadness, embarrassment, so many feelings flying about. I felt crushed that there was no unconditional love either.
I always think the method helped me hang on in that extremely difficult moment but I guess there was intent there, I just wasn’t cognisant enough to process it.
I can relate to what you have written a lot regards feeling every feeling, I had to work my way through all the shit I was going through as well. At that stage, it seemed impossible that I would ever get to where I am now, which isn’t amazing exactly but so much better than being in that place.
Glad you are tapping into that intent and I think becoming aware of when that intent and sincerity slips is progress too. So many times previously I would do so unconsciously or take too long to get back to current time awareness and felicity. For awhile I got myself stuck in just being aware and focusing on the now/current time awareness rather than actually trying to feel good, maybe because that was still so much better than the feeling shit.