Guilt regarding having children

[Kub933]

Thanks I’ve just been reading some correspondence between him and Richard.

This one by Richard cracked me up

Anybody who is or has been a parent knows only too well that children, around the age of three-four, can develop a tendency to keep on asking ‘why’ to each answer given to their previous ‘why’ query until the parent usually tells them that it is just the way things are and to go outside and play … mostly, however, they grow out of that stage (those who do not are called philosophers in adulthood).

[son_of_bob]

Haha! To give some context my friend was a genius. Taught himself to program, play instruments as a kid, so many things. Me and him were the top of our classes for everything but rather than a competitive approach we had an incredible collaborative friendship. My whole career exists because of what he taught me, I wouldn’t have achieved anywhere near what I have in my life without knowing him. I don’t think I would have ever encountered AF if not for him either. As having no interest in spirituality and not really being unhappy in anyway at that time, I was happy with my love of creativity and learning and the vibes and highs from this, I don’t think I would have ever have discovered this alternative without him.

Funnily enough, he did study philosophy at university but he could have done anything he wanted to. I always found it a waste that he chose philosophy lol!

When we were 13/14 in high school (this being around 98/99) he was thinking about concepts of the self, the nature of reality. He began realising the illusory nature of the self at this point. Merely from his own lines of questioning.

So many things that he taught or introduced me to. His death has definitely been a difficult emotional upheaval. It was my first experience of a genuine deep regret, as we had drifted out of contact those lost 4 or 5 years before he passed away, something that seemed impossible at one point. I can’t believe we drifted like this. However, our mutual depressions and different pathways clashed. He ultimately gave up on AF and favoured anti-natalism and compassion and I wanted to continue on the AF path, I had more success on it than him and I was more confident it could deliver the goods. I think he had a problem with the experiential, he seemed always in the realm of the theoretical.

So many things would trigger memories of him, places we would hang, movies we watched, comedies, comedians he introduced me to (like Bill Hicks, Dave Chapelle), music we loved, books we shared. He introduced me to the internet in 1997, I had started to hear about it like films The Net with Julia Roberts and noticing the football (soccer) tournament Euro 96 had a website (wondering what the hell it was lol) he had been online since 1992 and had witnessed the whole evolution of the net from predominantly text based sites to the insane variety that now exists. He introduced me to Google, as well as YouTube, etc. He was that guy who was always ahead of the curve, knew what was going to be big before it became big.

When your lose older relatives and close family friends it is a difficult bond to break. When your parents die it is even harder, the bond being so close, I imagine losing a sibling in some instances must be just as tough. When you lose a buddy though, it feels even more real, the possibility of death for yourself is realised as a truly genuine outcome. It is not esoteric anymore, there may not be some expectation or warning that death will happen…it is a viable possibility at any given time.

Again, the universe throws up opportunities to learn more about how we tick.

[son_of_bob]

@claudiu

Yes my mother’s illness and passing was exactly this. I did not know before how deep grief can be. It is a core part of the human condition. And not shying away from it, allowed me to understand it fully. It came to a head when I was feeling awful about it one day, I saw I was angry, deeply angry, pissed at the universe… and then I wondered ok, what specifically am I angry about? And then I saw I was angry at the fact that things continue to happen, and that it doesn’t seem to affect almost anybody in the slightest, this terrible thing that happened. How can the universe keep going when such an awful thing happened? I wanted everything to pause, to slowly swirl to a halt and everybody and everything in the universe to bow before ‘me’ in the center, everyone to worship ‘my’ intense grieving, the deep unfairness of it all, and to recognize it… and once I allowed that vision and feeling to fully happen, the depth of the grieving disappeared for me. There is not this anchor or undercurrent of it that was there before. And no anger about it anymore. Of course the universe goes on… how could it be any other way?

I have been thinking all week what to say. I was feeling bad because I forgot to say sorry for your loss because it is something my mum would have expected me to convey to you, to acknowledge your loss in some empathetic way.

I don’t know how to sincerely acknowledge your loss or anybody’s in some none big deal emotional way. Why am I feeling so awkward about this. This verbal diarrhoea was starting to explode out. I realise I see everything through the lens of my own experiences/hurts. Straight into my mind is my dad’s own death from cancer (prostate with bone, lung, skin, liver and lymph mets). I had to say it, had to make it about me and my sufferings.

My dad passed away from cancer too. I know experientially the method helped in this domain too. I can see how I am my suffering, and this makes the suffering valid, gives validity to the tragedy that is my personal narrative, like some coping mechanism to make sense of the pain. To not suffer is to accept all suffering has no actuality/validity, it was just some mere temporary experience like everything else. Not more or less important than other experiences that make up what has happened in my life. Then this suffering is not adding depth to my inner writer’s identity.

[claudiu]

@son_of_bob

To not suffer is to accept all suffering has no actuality/validity, it was just some mere temporary experience like everything else. Not more or less important than other experiences that make up what has happened in my life. Then this suffering is not adding depth to my inner writer’s identity.

So here’s the interesting part. This is all talking about the suffering - which is ‘me’ suffering. And if ‘I’ don’t suffer it’s like essentially for ‘me’ the experience never happened …

Yet isn’t that absurd?! Of course the events happened - our parents did in fact pass away due to cancer. How can it be that the only way ‘I’ can recognize that is by ‘me’ suffering ?

It reveals how incredibly self-centered the suffering is. It’s not about the parent or the others the event affects … it’s not even about this body. It’s just about ‘me’. “If I didn’t feel it … … it didn’t happen.” ‘I’ am completely blind to what’s factually occurring, outside the scope of how ‘I’ feel about it!

This helped me to allow myself to stop suffering … seeing that it’s not about anyone else or even the events that happened, it’s just about ‘me’. How uncaring!

[son_of_bob]

@claudiu

Yet isn’t that absurd?! Of course the events happened - our parents did in fact pass away due to cancer. How can it be that the only way ‘I’ can recognize that is by ‘me’ suffering ?

Yes, so utterly self-centred. Absurd to the max.

@claudiu

It reveals how incredibly self-centered the suffering is. It’s not about the parent or the others the event affects … it’s not even about this body. It’s just about ‘me’. “If I didn’t feel it … … it didn’t happen.” ‘I’ am completely blind to what’s factually occurring, outside the scope of how ‘I’ feel about it!

I seriously just had this insight earlier this morning too, coinky dinky (a friends words for coincidence). So it is clear my suffering is more valid than the actual/factual physical suffering my dad went through. I mean fuck, he is the one that went through hell.

@claudiu

This helped me to allow myself to stop suffering … seeing that it’s not about anyone else or even the events that happened, it’s just about ‘me’. How uncaring!

Yes, totally. This has been a very fruitful discussion thank you.

The day before my dad died he felt he was close to going and asked me to stay that evening. In the morning he made me call and get my siblings to come too. There is this particular moment that stuck with me, my dad was quite a cynical person I always thought but there was this moment of vulnerability he said to me “I enjoy being alive, I don’t want it to end.” It was shocking because I had these preconceptions even about my dad’s value system to life, like he was some kind of nihilist.