Vineeto: Indeed, even though it is natural and often unavoidable that feelings are blocking this kind of awareness most of the time, it is very perspicacious to notice it – one needs to experience it enough when it’s not happening in order to see the pattern.
Vineeto: An excellent observation – intuition is a feeling commentary, whereas attentiveness is much more observant, even when observing one’s feelings in action. The above quote from Richard is one of my favourite passages but I’ll cut it short – this post is getting far too long already.
Chrono: Something which seems to take me out of the way I usually operate and indulge in is seeing that I am feeling some particular feeling and it seems all the while this moment is happening. It’s like, why would I want to feel bad (or antidotally good) when this moment is happening irregardless? At one point the thought occurred to me “how could any of this be happening without ‘me’?”. It seemed almost disconcerting like there’s a deep feeling of ‘I’ am needed. My mind boggles at the ramifications of the universe happening on its own.
Vineeto: Ha, you said it well. I had several conversations with Syd about this. “Being true to one’s feelings” mostly implies to value and express those feelings, whilst “being honest” often involves, and justifies, expressing malice. Don’t you find it more and more fortuitous that you are not as “sane and normal” anymore as when you started out on the actualist adventure?
Chrono: Yes as I was on the road to being insane and abnormal otherwise haha.
Hi Chrono,
I took the liberty to split your post in half as all the topics raised merit responding to.
Given you raised the topic of “on the road to being insane and abnormal” – I highly recommend Richard’s two Selected Correspondences on Sanity, Insanity and the Third Alternative (whichever excerpts tickle your fancy). This correspondence of what sanity really is was a genuine eye-opener for ‘Vineeto’, and it took ‘her’ a while to digest how much “sanity is the problem and insanity is not the solution” –
Richard: Moreover, as I clearly state that it is sanity which is the problem (and that insanity is not the solution), the entire email exchange starting at … (Richard, List B, No. 19 l, 12 Apr 2003) … and going on for 9-10 emails is well worth a read.
Here are a few excerpts. Viz.:
• [Respondent]: ‘Are you telling me that when I see bombs dropping and people with their limbs blown off that what I am seeing is sane …
• [Richard]: ‘Yes … the bombs dropping, and people with their limbs blown off, is nothing other than sanity in action. And sanity prevails all over the world: for instance an estimated 2.5 million [currently 5.0 million] sane peoples have been killed in the civil war in the Congo (aka Zaire) by their sane fellow human beings … perhaps it is because it is not being displayed 24/7 on television screens there seems to be very little outrage. Or maybe it is because without the good ol’ US of A to yet again mercilessly whip around the block there is no outlet for the outrage?
It is sanity which is the problem world-wide … it is what you are seeing when observing the world (peoples in general) and yourself’.[Emphasis added]. (Richard, List B, No. 19 l, 13 Apr 2003b) (…)
• [Richard]: (…). Here in this actual world all is salubrious and irreprehensible … just consider, for a moment if you will, that it is only a sanity-based analysis which would determine that permanent happiness and harmlessness be insanity (it speaks volumes about the nature of sanity that it does so). I know I have said it many times before but I will say it again for emphasis: I do find it cute that peace-on-earth, in this lifetime as this flesh and blood body, be considered a chronic and incurable psychotic mental disorder’. (Richard, List B, No. 19 l, 18 Apr 2003).
(Richard, AF List, No. 29, 10 Jan 2013)
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Vineeto: I remember ‘Vineeto’ at first being surprised to learn that Richard said he was not a fan of logic or being logical. ‘Vineeto’ had considered logic to be ‘her’ thinking process (when ‘she’ wasn’t being emotional) – if this, then that. However, the more ‘she’ paid attention when applying common sense, ‘she’ came to see that common sense is much more than following the fixed rules of logic but rather choosing what is sensible. ‘I’, the identity, can easily play tricks with logic, it being a rigid system, but with attentiveness one becomes aware of the underlying feelings and thus comes to one’s senses (common sense – down-to-earth facts and actuality – included).
Chono: Yes I notice that much of logic is ultimately based on beliefs. It “makes sense” in the world of imagination.
Vineeto: Well, I wouldn’t call it “based on beliefs” as such, even though some of it is. Logic has various meanings, and the definitions are rather confusing or even contradicting –
- reasoning [the action of thinking about something in a logical, sensible way], conducted or assessed according to strict principles of validity. (whereby: “experience is a better guide to this than deductive logic”)
- a system or set of principles underlying the arrangements of elements in a computer or electronic device so as to perform a specified task.
Synonym: Rationale: The underlying reason or logical basis for a belief or action. (Oxford Languages).
Hence I prefer to stay on side of common sense because the principles of logic can easily be misappropriated or deliberately perverted for ‘my’ purpose. They work for computers though (2nd meaning).
Chrono: Ah yes I can I see I was being sloppy with my writing and will try to refer to the dictionary definitions. The word logic seems to me to be co-opted. The reason I had phrased it as such was because I have heard the word ‘logical’ being used a few times by people (including me) to describe themselves and show how their way of thinking is “superior” to others who are being “illogical” via following their feelings or utilizing intuition. But nonetheless both are circumscribed by ‘me’.
You weren’t necessarily sloppy because this is the way you “have heard the word ‘logical’ being used” being the common understanding, and this kind of ‘logic’ has a high currency as being “superior”. It is nevertheless not all it’s made out to be because logic is very often used to just win an argument, or ‘prove’ something nonsensical or non-beneficial, and it is, as you say, “circumscribed by ‘me’”.
As such I prefer the word sensible, which is more comprehensive to describe a way of thinking governed by common sense and rationality, not depending on one’s feelings, when seeking to find a beneficial conclusion for all concerned according to the facts.
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Vineeto: Again, isn’t it amazing that pointing your attention (attentiveness) to one specific aspect of the human condition, with pure intent operating) reveals the very nature of the underlying feeling and structure, and you gradually cease believing in the repeated expressions of ‘your’ “drive to survive”.
Chrono: Yes and I find that the genuine intent to be happy and harmless is very key. Actually I’m feeling very good right now as I write this and I chose to feel good. (link)
It is a delight to hear you say that “the genuine intent to be happy and harmless is very key”. It is indeed the key, and remembering to add appreciation will open the world of naiveté to you, where you can marvel and be amazed by, to the point of it taking your breath away.
Cheers Vineeto