I have to say Iâm not qualified at all in these matters but @Miguel What you write here and what you have done in dealing with these symptoms in yourself (from what Iâve read) is really quite impressive. Iâve been lucky to have a pretty stable mind even though I was as miserable as you can get so itâs not something I ever had to deal with but I have come across so many people dealing with different levels of psychological issues and itâs great that perhaps there is a different alternative for some of them to try, of course bearing in mind all those points that you and @Srinath mentioned.
My partner for example, she had some of those issues to deal with even before coming to Actualism and she made good headway in improving herself by taking matters into her own hands, then later on when she found out about Actualism she has taken this improvement even a step further and is doing really quite well.
So it does seem like a gradient from the most severe states which would not bode well with Actualism to âwell adjustedâ individuals who might be able to apply the method from the get go. However it seems that for some individuals conventional methods can be applied to get to a certain level and from there a possibility of something more via Actualism becomes available, just like you did yourself.
This is far from a psychological disorder but I remember when I came into Actualism after years of spirituality and of essentially dissociating. I still remember the state of my mind that was like living in a nightmare, there were so many feelings that were repressed so deeply that I couldnât even recognise them, never mind feeling happy and harmless.
I remember even writing about some of these when I first joined slack, there was an anxiety that expressed itself as physical tension that I lived night and day for so many years. From that place I specifically remember thinking that if I could just end this anxiety my life would be complete because living it was that bad. And itâs so great to write this as a fact that this anxiety is truly gone out of my life with not a trace left.
@miguel I really like what youâve written here and agree. I donât think that the prevailing orthodoxy of psychiatry or even âmental health/illnessâ is a good thing - although it has some good ideas in certain areas and is a good thing for certain people in certain stages of their lives.
People are ultimately individuals and quite complicated ones at that. The creativity and resilience of people in the face of existence is quite amazing. There are so many ways of approaching the problems of ones own existence and problems with âbeingâ. Everyone approaches actualism a little differently.
If actualism is going to help those with a mental disorder (or whatever term that is acceptable) then it will be the experience and experimentation of people like yourself that will form the basis for an approach that can be more broadly generalised and recommended.
The cocktail of phenothiazine drugs he was prescribed in a mental asylum setting in order to stabilize his symptoms (in conjunction with benzodiazepines) might, or might not, be suggestive as to what the doctors determined was his underlying condition.
@rick Is this on the AFT? I couldnât find it. When did it occur? Yes, he might have very well have been treated based on what they thought he was suffering from. Unless of course there was an actual psychotic episode in the midst of all of this.
@edzd Its hard to really describe this. Itâs something that has to be experienced. Except to say that the contemplation of the end of âyouâ with everything you stand for is so vast as to really defy easy comprehension. Have you watched the video where Vineeto is contemplating self-immolation? Richard talks about it there when he says âits way beyond fearâ.
That clarifies the context for me. I was trying to ascertain if you were referring to how one feels when imagining death or how one feels upon immolation. Understood that it needs to be experienced.
On the AFT site Richard relays that an âextensive arsenalâ of antipyschotic drugs failed to relieve his mental anguish. So circa '93?
Richard (2000): In psychiatric terms the neurons were agitated: energised and excited with an excess of dopamine in the post-synaptic receptors, described as being similar to the effect of amphetamines, cocaine or LSD ⌠yet nothing could be done about it with psychiatryâs extensive arsenal of anti-psychotic drugs. Mailing List 'AF' Respondent No. 60
Regarding your query about a reference to the specific drugs administered to him from that âextensive arsenalâ, the classes of which I referred to earlier, that was detailed in what became known on the Yahoo Group as the âPTSD articleâ which would be the same unpublished article that the AFT site refers to as the âVET-NET-AUSTRALIAâ article, via their bracketed descriptive insertion that replaces Respondent No. 29âs reference to it, which subject material in said article, together with the discussions that erupted on the forum surrounding it, is what Richard was responding to and was referencing in the following correspondence:
(Jan 29 2013) RESPONDENT No. 29:So in the websiteâs version⌠a normal guy puts into a method he devised to induce changes: first enlightement and then AF. And this [âVET-NET-AUSTRALIAâ] article suggests the outcome was a desperate strategy of a mentally disturbed guy trying to cope with all the manic psychic changes that PTSD was causing in him. RESPONDENT:Spot on. To me, the second is an even more impressive tale. What a horrific and heart-wrenching process, and what an incredibly courageous and determined man he was to go through all that, and to come out the other side a happy man. I thoroughly admire much of what Richard has done. Heâs a much greater man than Iâve ever been or ever will be. [âŚ]. RICHARD: Gâday No. 25, No. 29, & No. 4, It is no secret that I had two major ânervous breakdownsâ, and at least one minor one (where I became catatonic and was rushed to a local hospitalâs EU), the first of which occurred âwith sudden onsetâ (one of the diagnostic symptoms) at sunrise on the 6th of September, 1981, and the second, also âwith sudden onsetâ, in the late afternoon of the 30th of October, 1992, in an abandoned cow-pasture. Mailing List 'D' Respondent No. 4
I wonât be linking to or providing the unpublished article here for obvious reasons but if you were subscribed to the Yahoo Group forum circa Jan 2013 you could presumably still review its contents in your Yahoo email, with the pinch of salt it deserves.
@rick I do have a vague recollection of this debate. I think it was slightly before my time and I donât have any record of it.
From your links, it seems that there is no doubt that Richard did suffer from acute mental anguish (a very non-specific term) both in '81 and around '93. First associated with enlightenment and subsequently with the beginning of an actual freedom. Even if he was started on antipsychotics and other medications (which it appears didnât really work) it doesnât necessarily mean the diagnosis was kosher as treatment doesnât always guarantee diagnostic certainty. But one would probably need to really look at the medical record to get a clear sense of what diagnosis was made and why to know for sure. PTSD doesnât fit the bill either really it seems to me, unless there is other info. I do not have.
Richard (2000): In psychiatric terms the neurons were agitated: energised and excited with an excess of dopamine in the post-synaptic receptors, described as being similar to the effect of amphetamines, cocaine or LSD ⌠yet nothing could be done about it with psychiatryâs extensive arsenal of anti-psychotic drugs.
I donât know if I would be as confident in ascribing a neurochemical basis for the experience haha.
The really interesting thing though is that I experienced something similar when I first became actually free - except to a much milder degree. And also subsequently post AF whenever a significant bit of âguardianâ left me. There was a pleasurable excitation which crescendoed to a point where it was slightly unpleasant, but each time things just levelled off and became smooth. Itâs amazing how the body and mind work to only give you what you can take. Like Richard caffeine could make things worse. I had to be watchful of my caffeine intake during those times. Even now I canât tolerate the amount of caffeine that I used to. I think a big part of my not freaking out is that I wasnât the first to blaze this trail. I knew Richard and others had done this before. I was speaking about it with Craig and Geoffrey at the time. But I can see how disturbing it would have been for someone who didnât know what the hell this was and what was going on, as it would have been for Richard. Then of course there is the fact that I did it directly and didnât go through enlightenment.
Haha its this topic again! At first I was going to write that in my experience I would say it is not helpful and maybe even detrimental to focus on the senses when in the grip of intense feelings but now I wonder wether there are some cases where this could work? What does everyone else think?
Firstly though my understanding is that @Miguelâs advice was specifically aimed at someone dealing with mental illness hence the mention of hallucinations and delusions, therefore it might not apply to an actualist who is not dealing with the same issues.
In my personal experience when I am in the grip of intense emotions attempting to focus on the senses becomes an escape. This means some form of suppression or dissociation. âIâ split âmyselfâ in 2, one part which is the intense emotions and the other part which is now focusing on the sensate experience. It never seems to lead to anything clean but rather feels forced and more often gets me in âweirdâ territory, as in ASC weird.
I think allowing sensuosity might be useful to get one from neutral/good into great, excellent etc. However in this case one is already operating from a somewhat stable baseline and then sensuosity carries one further into something much better.
1 - Everything is ok, nothing 'crazy 'happening, but I am feeling bad. I want to feel good.
2 - The world is spinning, I canât breathe, Iâm extremely panicking, what is going on??
In scenario 1⌠âfocusingâ on the senses wonât do anything beneficial. It will be a way of ignoring how youâre feeling and that will never lead to genuinely enjoying and appreciating being alive.
In scenario 2⌠⌠in order to get back to relative sanity, it can be helpful to âtune inâ to the senses, be like ok, I am here, I see this wall over there, I am breathing, everything is ok, the ground is under me, these are my hands, etc⌠⌠this will be a way to stop yourself from going further into the panic/insanity and back to relative normality.
Then once youâre at relative normality you can do what you would normally do to get back to feeling good (which isnât âfocusingâ on the senses).
@Miguel thanks for sharing your experiences so openly. There is a strong family history of mental health issues on my mumâs side and I have often worried there is some genetic component to this and maybe I have passed it onto my children. It is interesting to hear how people deal with scenarios that exist in my imagination as events I am frightened of, worst case scenarios.
My mum has bipolar but I often think she is mis-diagnosed, I can see she has symptoms crossing over a few types of diagnoses but I donât think she fits neatly into any DSM-5 type diagnosis. I noticed that once I had experienced depression and anxiety she suddenly seemed more comfortable in opening up with me about her own experiences. I have tried to share suggestions too, as you have with your daughters but I have never really had any success. Maybe it is harder for a parent to take advice from a child, in the same way I notice my older siblings donât like to take advice from me. Now that she has Alzheimerâs and it is progressing I doubt she would sufficiently remember any suggestions.
For me, I had two moments when I felt like I was close to having a breakdown and overwhelmed with emotion. It is the method that helped me hold on and my support network of friends and family were helpful and had been there too so knew how to help me and I was safe among them. There are a lot of mental health issues in my family and my friends. Without what I have gleaned from AF, I think I would have had a full breakdown rather than just depression and anxiety though. It helped to ground me even when under the onslaught of intense emotions.
It has taken a long time but it is the method that has slowly but surely helped me pull out of the worst patches. I have had some help along the way with counselling, CBT and medication.
Sometimes if the emotion behind Scenario 2 is strong enough then tuning into the senses doesnât work either. It is like a glitch in the flight or fight mechanism. As I mentioned before there are times when you have to ride it out, use a paper bag and other things, a friend or family tapping me to help focus on the senses helped too. Like it seems so much harder to tune in to the senses, like your brain is being scrambled.
Eventually, you will experientially realise you are ok and not at harm and not dying or some other imagined worst case scenario. I mentioned this in one of the other boards. You will ride it down and then eventually each time it will be less intense. What you said @claudiu does work, just not as effective in the most extreme anxiety I have felt, or is much harder to achieve.
It was part of my schizoid condition (best thought of as a spectrum) referred in passing here Actualism and Mental Illness, whose invasive thoughts and/or âvoicesâ fought for dominion over what I should or should not think, or what I should or should not do.
Yes, I am aware of the condition. Wow, thats inspiring what you have achieved with the odds stacked against you. Do you think you have gleaned more from the condition than the average person with a similar condition.
Yes, I read that post and that is why I was amazed with your progress. Knowing family and friends with Bipolar and Schizophrenia and seeing the destructive impact on their lives, I canât help but try and emphasise to others less aware how big a deal it is.
Are you familiar with Julian Jayneâs book âThe Origin of Consciousness and the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mindâ?
His main theory is that schizophrenia is not an "illness " but rather a throwback to a previous universal state of consciousness that all humans lived until around 5000 years ago.
It was written in 1976, and to this day widely rejected because along with this theory he all outlined a theory that the evolution of God was directly linked with this previous state of consciousness. As much as the modern scientific world claims to be secular, the idea that God evolved is too much for most. Along with of course the multi billion dollar drug industry benefiting from the term âillnessâ.
is it?
