Thoughts meandering

Oh, I never thought of that posibility/interpretation, because at least in my case it cannot occur in PCEs, although it can occur in EEs.

True :blush:

Ok, so although I am in the process of translating at least part of my diaries in which I wrote in detail these experiences and my reflections about them, perhaps it would be better to share right now an ad hoc translation of some fragments that you might find useful.
Keep in mind that there may be differences in how I might present them in the future, because many require explanations/clarifications for third parties that I naturally did not write for myself, that I might put together several as a reflection on a topic or merge their common factors in a single piece of writing, etc -and remember that I tend to write in spanish with english words-. What follows is in the second person as are parts of an [already edited] account I made by e-mail to a friend many years ago:

“Once again appears the difficulty in describing what I experienced…
It was a total absence of thoughts. Again, not like when we feel that our mind is ‘empty’ or when we perceive a certain inner silence, but a sudden realization that there is always a noise in the background and that there has never been a silence like this before…
Suppose you enter a furnished room that has no contact with outside noises and where there is nobody. You stand in the middle, do not make any movement, you can even close your eyes and listen carefully. What do you hear? Nothing. Silence.
Now paint yourself the same situation but taking the furniture out of the room, like when you move out and you are left with the same apartment but with the rooms empty. What do you hear? Nothing either. Also silence. But another silence. Deeper and more singular. It is not even only due to the absence of sounds. One senses something different. A different emptiness.
Similarly, it was not as if I was just in a silent mind, but in an empty mind”.

Leaving aside in this case considerations about what state “I” was, I had the time and intention to deliberately think about what I was experiencing:

"I thought that this state would soon disappear […]. After being like that for a while, I noticed then that at least there were something: those thoughts about the state soon disappearing… But it was as if they rumbled with the characteristic sound of empty places, and there was no undertone, no reverberation, no echo. They disappeared as soon as they came up. But I also noticed a clear separation between those thoughts arising from within, and being “independent” of the environment, of the background -what would be the usual “sound of furnished places”-; they did not arise from or were connected with the environment. Those thoughts were not generated by circumstance (by what I saw, for example). There were no thoughts related to what I saw. I knew what I was seeing and even one of the aspects I deliberately thought about was: ‘But I know what I am seeing; what is this or that…’ ".

However, those direct percepts lacked the usual automatic thoughts that arise after the percept is felt (described well by Richard at Attentiveness And Sensuousness And Apperceptiveness). Also, the understanding of those percepts were not mediated or accompanied by a mental voice, thoughts about them or conceptual translations. And all this is what I relate to [necessarily unintentional] meandering thoughts vs the deliberate use of thought.

The next three-hour PCE allowed me to experience and describe all this in greater detail, and the EE from 22:30 on 07/30/13 to noon on 07/31/13 allowed me compare and write about it but without the self in abeyance… All of this is part of what I was planning to put on the forum, in my journal.

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