It does. I probably should have said: take your pick.
So
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Having experienced a PCE, do you perceive no difference with the sense of infinitude experienced in a PCE vs that sense outside of it?
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And I am a bit lost as to your interest in the sense of infinitude. Is it because you think of it as a possible gateway to a PCE, rather than seeing it as part of what can be experienced once you are in it? Do you see/propose sensing infinitude as a kind of shortcut into a PCE?
This thread/topic reminds me of nothing so much as the This Moment of Being Alive article. I’m not sure if infinitude is quite the right word because as @Miguel is pointing out, that’s something that really only becomes apparent in PCE (I think it might even only come into its fullness when fully-free, too). Still an important realization/connection to make.
From the AFT:
Before applying the actualism method – the ongoing enjoyment and appreciation of this moment of being alive – it is essential for success to grasp the fact that this very moment which is happening now is your only moment of being alive. The past, although it did happen, is not actual now. The future, though it will happen, is not actual now. Only now is actual. Yesterday’s happiness and harmlessness does not mean a thing if one is miserable and malicious now and a hoped-for happiness and harmlessness tomorrow is to but waste this moment of being alive in waiting. All one gets by waiting is more waiting. Thus any ‘change’ can only happen now. The jumping in point is always here; it is at this moment in time and this place in space. Thus, if one misses it this time around, hey presto, one has another chance immediately. Life is excellent at providing opportunities like this.
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Hi Ron - this may have been true up until the 14th of November, 2009. The story goes that as of the precise moment of the death of Richard’s ex-wife Irene, all feeling-beings around the globe gained the ability to access and experience the inherent, consummate, impeccable, and actual qualities of infinitude without needing to experience a PCE. Aspects of the actual world, specifically the immaculately pure and consummately benevolent qualities inherent to infinitude, is now not invisible to an identity. Additionally, experiencing or even remembering a PCE is not at all necessary for attaining an actual freedom:
(2012)
RESPONDENT: So it is just a matter of seeing clearly that the real-world is an illusion? I see it but perhaps not clearly enough? I see it most clearly when thinking stops and there is just a sensate body sitting/ laying here. That is the time to have a pce and see the vast stillness of the universe. Is the pce necessary? ps: Is the pce necessary for pure intent to come out of this vast stillness?
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RICHARD: Prior to 11.25 AM (AEDST) on Saturday, the 14th of November, 2009, a pure consciousness experience (PCE) was indeed necessary for pure intent – that benevolence and benignity of the vast and utter stillness of the universe itself … .However, since then a PCE has no longer been a vital factor in the process of becoming actually free of the instinctual passions/the feeling-being formed thereof …. Also, what the feeling-being inhabiting this flesh-and-blood body all those years ago experienced as an ‘over-arching benevolence and benignity’ was experienced by the feeling-being ‘Peter’, on the 29th of December 2009, as [quote] ‘a sweetness that was palpable’ [endquote] . . . . the impenetrable psychic force-field which Devika had established to protect Richard from other people, and which Irene had transmuted into protecting other people from Richard, is no longer in existence … … Consequentially, that ‘over-arching benevolence and benignity’ … became directly immanently accessible to some select associates … in late 2009/early 2010, and was variously experienced by them as a ‘palpable sweetness’, for instance, and an ‘infinite tenderness’, for example, and has been more generally described as ‘being bathed in intimacy’. It was also accessible at-a-distance . . . . the direct (as in, immediate or unmediated) experiencing of the vast stillness of this physical universe’s infinitude … is the way in which the feeling-being inhabiting this flesh-and-blood body all those years ago became consciously aware of pure intent … these days, when that ‘palpable sweetness’ (for instance) is experienced [by a feeling-being] it is that ‘over-arching benevolence and benignity’ being experienced, by virtue of that immaculate perfection having become manifest in the everyday world as a flesh-and-blood body only, as they are both one and the same thing in essence.
Mailing List 'D' Respondent No. 17
In short, the immaculate perfection and purity of the infinitude/ absoluteness of the universe has, since November 14, 2009, been intimately accessible and experienceable by all identities; no PCE required/ no abeyance needed:
Richard (2015): … as that which each particular then-existent identity was experiencing (i.e., that immaculate perfection and purity personified) via those differing ways each feeling-being has of experiencing it … is identical … to that very-same immaculate perfection and purity which was previously experienceable only in a PCE – albeit then directly experienceable as-it-is due to identity being in abeyance … Mailing List 'D' Martin
The 14th of November, only 2 days ago!
I always enjoy noticing these little coincidences 
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@rick, before setting off a new linguistic-conceptual bombshell, please tie up the loose ends left by the previous one in Drawing the line between feeling and fact
(By the way, I have always been intrigued by the fact referred by your quotes)
How’s this for coincidences: Alan passed away on the same day as Irene. Ed’s post stating Alan’s time of death on Nov. 13 at 9:30 AM PST equates to Nov. 14 at 4:30 AM AEDST.
I have not forgotten it yet, Miguel. I still have a draft saved in response to your message. It’s a matter of getting around to it.
If there was no difference then they’d be the same. And I would just say PCE instead of a sense of infinitude or wonder and satisfaction as I first put it in this thread. There is a vast difference between a PCE and exclaiming wow it’s the same now as it was over there when i last thought about it.
(a) I would be lost if someone didn’t have interest in a sense of infinitude. What can me more interesting than infinitude? Sniffing out a whiff of it should be quite compelling. A sense of eternity occurs after having asked myself once again ‘what time it is’. Feelings of wonder and satisfaction result. (b) As to it being a gateway to the PCE, I can’t say for sure that I’ve had one in the last few weeks. Every time I look for myself within an EE, I find some niggling of self. So I assume I haven’t had a PCE. Just EE’s. But wonder and satisfaction should be a gateway to a PCE. (c) I think the sense of eternity I experience after answering when am i for the umpteenth time is a part of what can be experienced in a PCE. (d) I can see it as a shortcut but what isn’t a shortcut? The PCE happens in an instant and can happen at any time one is feeling stupendous.
I was wondering why no one was quoting that article or at least alluding to it. So many other quotes were brought to my attention, after all. In the article, Richard indicates that now is to be seen as the only jumping off point and proceeds to describe the minimization and maximization of non-felicitous and felicitous feelings, respectively. He is clearly stating what I called “the most common answer…” in my OP. Unlike myself, he doesn’t emphasize at all how seeing that is is still now will consistently produce a felicitous feeling. Yet there are a few lines in there where he may be indicating how seeing that it is still now makes one feel felicitous.
There must be an attainment of freedom from the past and the future in whatever form it takes
Thus the past and the future become less and less real as the sense of identity, as an enduring entity continuing over time, is dependent upon an emotion-backed memory and passionate imagination fuelling the fires of malice and sorrow.
One starts to feel ‘alive’. Being ‘alive’ is to be paying attention – exclusive attention – to this moment in time and this place in space. This attention becomes fascination … and fascination leads to reflective contemplation. Then – and only then – apperception can occur.
This moment is your only moment of being alive … one is never alive at any other time than now. And, wherever you are, one is always here … even if you start walking over to ‘there’, along the way to ‘there’ you are always here … and when you arrive ‘there’, it too is here. Thus attention becomes a fascination with the fact that one is always here … and it is already now. Fascination leads to reflective contemplation.
I guess I should conclude this particular reply by re-iterating my OP. Seeing how this moment has no duration makes feelings seem secondary. By which I mean, of course, good and bad feelings. Wonder and satisfaction at a fact (that it remains now) become primary.
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Might I suggest moving from ‘when am I’ to ‘when is it,’ for expanded awareness / subtle shifting of interest from I to everything?
you may!
I think this might be not quite as automatic as you might think, as ‘I’ can attempt to ‘live in the present,’ thus ‘taking over’ the present-experiencing.
Richard makes the distinction between ‘me’ ‘living in the present’ (a common spiritual phrase/practice) and ‘letting the moment live you’
[Richard]: Where one lets the moment live one – rather than what is called ‘living in the present’ – it will be seen with startling clarity that this moment is eternal … and not ‘timeless’. Anyone who succeeds in ‘living in the present’, which is experienced as being that fleeting moment sandwiched between the past and the future, is present as a self (albeit an impersonal self) in/as an oceanic feeling of oneness … which gives the impression of being ‘timeless’.
This moment is not ‘timeless’ … for, although the fact is that it has no duration, as ‘then’ and ‘now’ and ‘then’ (was here then, is here now, will be here then), it does not negate the fact that this moment is already always here now (eternally here).
It is never not this moment … ‘tis not fleeting at all.
(search the linked page for ‘living in the present’ to get to the relevant bits)
Anyway I think this is why noticing it’s now is not by itself sufficient to consistently produce results, though I am not disagreeing with the results you have experienced thus far.
Have you been experiencing enjoyment, excellence, etc while also noticing the now-ness of what is happening?
I’ve been into actualism since 2011. I know there is no magic formula that immediately makes the self lose all credibility. Nonetheless, there is no need to attempt to live in the present. It is the same now here at my keyboard as it was on my comfy big chair. Which was the same now as the now experienced in the kitchen. Trying to shut out the past and future is wholly unnecessary. They are nothing but irksome feelings secondary to the wonder and satisfaction I am experiencing noting how it remains now as I write these words. The only niggling worry I had just then was a mind preoccupied with now while trying to compile a coherent sentence. But one doesn’t have to be always aware of it being now. One just has to be habituated to realizing it’s still now whenever the past actions or future concerns become troublesome. This is different from shutting out the past or future. And different from trying to live in the present. Accepting a fact as fact is different from trying to live a certain way.
I can’t say that I am letting the moment live me. That would be nice to experience for sure but not accurate and so not fair of me to claim. I am simply saying that noting how it is still now is showing me that it is always now and I feel quite wonderful because the universe is so (insert adjective here)
Maybe so. Maybe not. It’s worth taking a look though.
No. I feel absolutely terrible whenever I notice it’s still now. Like an anvil has just been dropped on my head. Yet here I am highly recommending it. I just want all of you to feel as terrible as me. Of course, I’ve been feeling enjoyment, excellence, etc while also noticing the now-ness of what is happening.
I think the enjoying & appreciating may be doing the heavy lifting.
How can feelings become secondary when the method is an affectively-based one?
Richard:
the moment-to-moment monitoring of the affections is, of course, an affective monitoring
It makes no difference to me how long you have been into actualism if there is misattribution. I am most interested in becoming free and understanding precisely how it works.
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My goodness Henry. Just try it out for a few days.
I may have been taking your ‘making recognizing that this moment has no duration the central tenet of enjoying & appreciating this moment of being alive’ a little too intensely, as in ‘before everything else’ as in ‘displacing everything else,’ which was my own feeling-fed misattribution.
I have no way of knowing what you know or don’t know from this distant keyboard-mediated interaction. I am interested in the inter-play, in understanding. I also have experiences of delight & wonder that it is always now and always here.
This seems to me a close relative of fascination:
One starts to feel ‘alive’. Being ‘alive’ is to be paying attention – exclusive attention – to this moment in time and this place in space. This attention becomes fascination … and fascination leads to reflective contemplation. Then – and only then – apperception can occur. An apperceptive awareness can be evoked by paying exclusive attention to being fully alive right now. This moment is your only moment of being alive … one is never alive at any other time than now. And, wherever you are, one is always here … even if you start walking over to ‘there’, along the way to ‘there’ you are always here … and when you arrive ‘there’, it too is here. Thus attention becomes a fascination with the fact that one is always here … and it is already now. Fascination leads to reflective contemplation. As one is already here, and it is always now … then one has arrived before one starts.
The potent combination of attention, fascination, reflection and contemplation produces apperception, which happens when the mind becomes aware of itself. Apperception is an awareness of consciousness. It is not ‘I’ being aware of ‘me’ being conscious; it is the mind’s awareness of itself. Apperception – a way of seeing that can be arrived at by reflective and fascinating contemplative thought – is when ‘I’ cease thinking and thinking takes place of its own accord … and ‘me’ disappears along with all the feelings. Such a mind, being free of the thinker and the feeler – ‘I’ as ego and ‘me’ as soul – is capable of immense clarity and purity … as a sensate body only, one is automatically benevolent and benign.
@JonnyPitt After reading through this thread I can see what you are saying as that has been my experience as well (assuming I’m understanding you correctly). The seeing that it is this moment of being alive automatically makes ‘me’ feel felicitous feelings. It was also this approach that Richard responded to saying that it delineated the difference between caused and un-caused enjoyment. Further to that, it has been my experience that if you consistently stay with that seeing (which can also potentially devolve into “living in the present” if no attentiveness is applied) then a PCE will inevitably occur.
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I was revisiting this today while driving and I could see that as my delight increased / as ‘I’ faded into the background, my awareness of infinitude & my current-time awareness increased. So it may be that it equally goes the other direction as well (delight increasing with awarenes of C-T awareness).
What I have experienced in the past with this happening is that ‘I’ go as far as I can, allowing as much delight/infinitude/C-T awareness as I can, and then inevitably something comes into my awareness/comes across ‘my’ bow that kicks me out of it into more ‘being,’ whether that is of the loving nature or the fearful-hateful nature.
So, my question to you @JonnyPitt (and @cross.chrono !) is, do you experience that ‘kicking-out’ with the recognizing that this moment has no duration (as a way to ‘approach infinitude’)?
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I take that for granted. There have been a few techniques over the years that got me close to the actual. Getting into my feelings and from there allowing myself to feel good again. Rememorating the PCE. Iirc, those were the most successful until now. And I still use them in conjunction with asking myself ‘what time is it?’. There have also been dead-ends like taking the ‘silly or sensible’ thing in directions that included changing my circumstances so I could feel better about myself. And many others I’m sure aren’t worth remembering. Asking myself what I really truly want was also effective. Though I haven’t needed to use that one since I started asking myself ‘what time is it?’ But it’s still in the toolbox. Tapping into a pure intent on a regular basis also worked.
Not technically. Based on your wording, it would be impossible. The key word being ‘recognize’. Every time I recognize it, I’m in awe. Any time I forget I then have to re-recognize that it is indeed this very same moment. That said. Despite being in awe that it is now, I still may feel a good/bad feeling underneath. And I may want to get into that feeling despite recognizing that it is still now. I remember such a circumstance two nights ago. But the awe was still the dominant feeling. Likewise, I may chose to rememorate a PCE even while being in awe at it always having been now this whole time.
Instead of ‘approaching infinitude’, let’s call it ‘seeing an important fact’. And that fact is it’s now as you read this and you can take the time to notice that if you want. And if you took the time to notice beforehand, you’d have noticed it was now before you sat down to the PC/labtop or opened your tablet or picked up your phone. And when you are done, you can check for yourself whether it’s still now. Having established that it has been now this whole time, you are now positioned to wonder why and how that is. You can also reflect on the ramifications of that for your own life going forward. Lmk what you find if you don’t mind.
I see you replying Henry. Be sure to read the final version.