Physical world vs Spiritual worlds

Actualism
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What is there to doubt? You sensed your sibling out of sight/smell/hearing range, and then you saw them. Are you doubting that you had an experience of sensing them? Clearly not. Are you doubting you saw them soon after? Also not. So these things, as a fact, happened. And multiple times.

So you don’t doubt that it happened. This is a story you can tell people. Now as to what it means, it’s another question. Do you have a weird ability to sense your siblings? Well it’s unclear. You don’t remember the many times you didn’t sense them. Maybe you’re always “sensing” your siblings and forget the times you don’t see them after. But you’d probably remember that so maybe not. In any case is it repeatable , reproducible? Maybe not. Is it worth doing a scientific experiment to see if you can reproduce it? Again probably not.

So it’s a bit of a weird thing where the best you can do is say well this and that happened, I don’t know why, one possibility is I sensed something and maybe there’s some weird thing I can sense that’s not commonly known. What does it ‘mean’? What does it reveal of the world as we normally think of it? Unclear.

Now back to what Richard wrote, it’s quite similar. He experienced what he called this “energetic immanence” surging twice, and four days later he was able to see that a man on another continent had a corresponding experience of a “gentle energy … pouring into him”, that happened at the same time.

Is there doubt that it happened? Seems unlikely. It’s a weird thing that happened. How to explain it? What does it mean? What does it reveal? Unclear , unknown … but it doesn’t change the fact that it happened.

So what really is actually off putting about it? And I ask it knowing that I myself also found it off putting at first :smile:. But as I thought more about it, it’s just a report or observation of something that was experienced to happen.

In any case the PCE itself does reveal that the fact that this happened and Richard reported it, ultimately doesn’t have any cause for concern for me myself becoming actually free, because there is just so obviously nothing ‘wrong’ with it (the PCE).

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22

Yes, it comes down to my not liking not knowing and not able to reproduce at whim and not able to know if it would ever happen again. Therefore, there is no nice and neat and closed off explanation. This is the problem for me, I seek to try and understand and have an explanation for everything. Including what arises in me. I noticed rather than just say, I feel sad or fearful, I try and put some deeper understanding and meaning and context to it. Rather than as is sometimes the case, it is unclear to me why I am feeling that way, or what triggered it. I don’t like admitting that I don’t know.

Things that are unclear or unknown I can see there is this part of me that wants to erase and censor such experiences, hence why I haven’t really discussed some of these things before.

For me though I always fear what I call the Fight Club effect, for those who haven’t seen the movie this is a Spoiler warning lol, a sort of fight club evolves from angry disenchanted men into a new group called Project Mayhem and they all have different jobs and tasks to carry out and kind of a like a terrorist group in a way, though not with the intent to kill but cause mayhem and take down the major credit card companies.

Part of joining that group is giving up your identity, you don’t have a name anymore. The person who started the group has mental health issues and split personality and so doesn’t agree with some of the rules he doesn’t realise his other persona created, he is unaware at this time. When a member of the group dies that he cared about it, it upsets him and he gets angry and starts telling the group the persons name. They are all confused because to them, a member of Project Mayhem doesn’t have a name. They can’t reconcile this contradiction, so one of the members states:

In death, a member of Project Mayhem has a name. His name is Robert Paulson . “His name is Robert Paulson”.

This becomes their chant and they all start chanting. Rather than process the contradiction they find a way to bypass it and continuing believing and behaving in the way that maintains the status quo of their group.

In my mind, I feared that I didn’t like what Richard was saying here but I was just finding a different frame for it so I could continue the status quo of practicing actualism.

In actualism, an actually free person can experience an energetic immanence and somebody not within a local distance, not with sensory input can experience a corresponding gentle energy pouring into them simultaneously.

I have reached a similar conclusion. That ultimately it is a report that I can’t verify and have never experienced either so there is nothing I can really do it with it. Nothing about it contradicts my experiences with felicity, EE’s or PCE’s though.

Sorry, how does the PCE itself reveal the fact that this happened to Richard? I had all my PCE’s before this event, so I can’t relate. As in, there is no lie/deception in a PCE?

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23

Ah not that. Tricky grammar, that I find often happens when I talk about actualism lol:

  • In any case
  • the PCE itself does reveal that
    • the fact that this happened and Richard reported it,
  • ultimately doesn’t have any cause for concern for me myself becoming actually free,
  • because
    • there is just so obviously nothing ‘wrong’ with it (the PCE).

i.e. The PCE shows that, it doesn’t particularly matter, with regards to the ‘integrity’ of the PCE, whether this thing that Richard reported happened.

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Thanks for clarifying, I can see how it can be read differently. The good old ambiguous English language.

Yes, hence we reached the same conclusion.

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In a way, I could never prove the subjective weirdness that has happened to me under the influence of anxiety. I have had some terrifying experiences that I think some people would never believe. This one, I had in the hypnagogic state whilst having a panic attack, like my whole system just crashed with exhaustion and I was drifting in a state of panic and sort of dreaming and awake dreaming, it was messed up. I was dreaming I was in these dimensions of suffering and there was no escape from suffering and death was actually utter transcendence into suffering. It was bizarre.

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Hehe then that’s the funny thing. Imagine you’re an alien reading reports of these things called “humans”. What is more bizarre from an outside perspective?

  1. Person A feels a physical energetic happening that Person B picks up on some significant distance away.
  2. Person A completely hallucinates, with all of their being, that they are travelling through dimensions of suffering (i.e. not in this physical dimension anymore), and believes in the moment that death is actually transcendence into suffering.

It would seem #2 is the far more bizarre one. Yet everyone reading this will think it’s more normal because it’s something that is usual for us – these hallucinations, be they while fully dreaming or half-awake. And then #1 is what puts people off of actualism!!! Haha.

The point I’m making, maybe poorly, is that actually it’s the human condition that is far more bizarre than actual freedom / actuality. It’s just that the actual world is unfamiliar to us… so it can appear more bizarre at first.

Also what’s there to “prove” per se about this? It’s clear you had the experience… do you mean to ‘prove’ whether the content is true, e.g. that death is transcendence into suffering?

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27

Sounds like a magic mushroom trip I had years ago. I remember at the peak of it I became a spirit floating through the universe for eternity, I had no beginning or end and it seemed like I have always been there separated from everyone and everything, not a fun time :laughing:

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Yes, I remember thinking had I found Hell, but there was no Devil lol. I can see in myself that I decide the validity of things based on them being something I subjectively have experienced or somebody I value and trust having subjectively experienced or that I desire or feel good about such a possible state. When something didn’t fall into these areas, it would be this uncomfortable…well what is that then.

Yes, for sure.

To prove that it is an hallucination and not a genuine experience of something tangible. Then I could demonstrate to others that the subjective experiences that have become part of their beliefs, like astral projection, etc could be shown to be not tangible but generated by a brain, a self created illusion. This goes back to what I was saying in my journal regards that long discussion you and others had with Rick regarding facts and feelings. I wish there was some way to make the subjective, objective.

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Ah got it. Yea seems the only way in this universe for someone to see something is subjective is for they themselves to see it. If they don’t wanna see it, they won’t … …

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But some things can only be understood experientially rather than seeing it, if that makes sense.

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31

thanks for this clarification Claudiu, that is very helpful :appreciation: