Kub933's Journal

[claudiu]

Hi Vineeto,

@Vineeto

I understand, they do sound similar – I was more commenting on the tendency I have observed of following the finger on an imaginary map rather than naively experiencing the next moment without a plan but unwavering intent.

How do you know which is the next step – I know that ‘Vineeto’ didn’t know which was the next step to get out-from-control, even though Richard had explicitly urged ‘her’ to do just that –

Richard: … although I was not advised of her [Irene’s] death until the following day, within the hour I was as if lifted forward by a cresting wave (to utilise surfing terminology), impressing upon Vineeto the necessity of being out-from-control/ in a different-way-of being (most unusual of me to do so), and have been effortlessly riding this perfect wave ever since … (Announcement 1)

Ah sure, if you mean it in the same sense whether it’s written as taking the next step or traversing the wall of fear or in some other manner, that it’s a matter of living it naively rather than trying to map it out, then the point is understood.

The benefit of knowing there is a way of being that has been reported to be a constant acceleration towards self-immolation, and that I’m not living that way of being, is that now I can “look for it” so to speak. But this is an experiential probing into what for me is the unknown (as I haven’t gone there yet), not a trying to place myself into it by picturing what it would be like or whatnot.

I remember being surprised at your response after I wrote something similar to you in an email, I found the exchange from October 2022. I wrote that “At a certain point it’s just a matter of going forward to what was previously unknown, come what may … … ” and your response was ”The process to an actual freedom is not as unknown as you make it out to be, it has been reported and described and mapped out in quite some detail.” I suppose there was a disconnect of where I was speaking from

@Vineeto

This is to emphasize that the transition to being out-from-control is indeed a radically different-way-of-being, which can neither be achieved by “vigilance” nor by “keep doing that and ‘stabilize’” and arises out from being naiveté (see last tooltip in A Clay-Pit Tale). Also you are referring to “all the above (caring, altruism, blessed oblivion)” almost as an afterthought, something you just forgot to mention —

I think there’s just a disconnect here. The funny and delightful thing is that from the self centric way of being it’s a big social identity issue, wanting to show that I “know the answer” and defend myself. But writing now from the being naive way of being it just doesn’t ‘matter’ at all haha, at least this aspect of it.

In any case it does seem beneficial to flesh it out in case I am missing something. So: If you read it as a normal/in-control self-centric being looking at a checkbox of stuff like “ooh gotta add some caring” and “oh yea can’t forget about the altruism!”, trying to check off boxes or add these in as ingredients to some dish, then I can see why you wrote what you did. Indeed it’s obvious that wouldn’t work, that isn’t how to proceed from being in an in control way of being

The way to proceed is rather to go from an out from control way of being which is what being naïveté is, which is also called an excellence experience. This isn’t an out from control virtual freedom, the distinction there (which I asked Richard about) is that pure intent isn’t fully and dynamically operative yet. But that’s just words describing something I haven’t experienced yet so it’s not so relevant now except as to know there’s something ‘more’ (but it is unknown to me what that is like)

So what I was attempting to convey, perhaps poorly, is that the way to continue from here seems to be to more consistently be naïveté , to be more and more of the time in this excellence experience way of being rather than not. I put ‘stabilize’ in squotes cause it’s not a great word, but don’t know what a good one would be. But basically to be it more consistently

And the way doesn’t seem so different from establishing a baseline of feeling good, it’s a matter of noticing when I have fallen out of it and getting back to it soonest.

So when you write the way to go out from control virtual freedom is by being naïveté it sounds like you’re saying the same thing — what do you think?

@Vineeto

How can you just “forget about the caring aspect lol” as if you had just forgotten your keys when leaving the house?

It doesn’t seem so strange to me, it’s a simple matter of having I think been quite on the right track for a few days after visiting Geoffrey, and then taking a self-centric escape hatch all the way back to normal self-centric way of being, at which point caring is certainly easy to “forget”! Lol

@Vineeto

The alternative of “sudorific” is not its logical opposite as in “without having to put effort into it” but a major ongoing re-experiencing of your way of being (without the ‘controller’).

Yea I do think we are saying the same thing. Last few days have oscillated from being in control self centric way of being and feeling or wondering if everything is horribly awry and I’m way off track, to the out from control naive way of being and it’s like oh ok I’m basically going in the right direction . As of now I do think I’m basically on the right track, but the doing/being of it will be the proof in the pudding of course

Cheers
Claudiu