Global warming/climate change

[claudiu]

@Andrew I won’t let you get away with it that easily

@Andrew

Firstly, and this is to Richard, It seem that the burden of finding out where those 12 points come from, is left to the reader.

It appears you didn’t follow my advice to “read it all again carefully before answering”, or perhaps even more alarmingly you did and posted this anyway, because this is one of the points that you say the “burden” is “left to the reader” to find out where it comes from:

1. The physical earth is not flat.

If you consider it a burden to find out why the earth is not flat… perhaps you shouldn’t be participating in this discussion.

Here’s another of the points:

2. The physical earth is not black.

If you’re unsure how to determine that the earth is not black, public discourse is probably contraindicated in your case.

etc. etc.

@Andrew

Whilst I am partial to a good read, and I did ask for some sources that I could read, it’s not up to me to counter assertions without references.

If you consider it an “assertion” that the Earth is constantly rotating (“3. The physical earth is not static (it is constantly rotating).”), and need references to determine it is so… then indeed this discussion is not for you.

@Andrew

As it took “7 weeks” [sic: “about three weeks”] to find the information presented, the challenge, whilst welcome is outside my current available free time.

What you are saying, in effect, is that your assertion that Richard was stating an “opinion” was baseless, as you haven’t actually looked into it to determine what exactly Richard is saying and why he is saying it.

Interesting!

And doubly interesting as this entire thread on this forum has been discussing exactly those topics and points which Richard wrote about, with references to boot!

For example:

@claudiu

@son_of_bob

@claudiu

Yea but the basis of the models is all that the IR-absorptive gases are 100% responsible for the reason the surface is around 15C instead of around -18C. If this premise is flawed then the models are just totally wrong, and filling the gaps in them won’t rescue them.

Yes, I am aware. There is a piece missing, the value for this surface temperature that is below expectations is established from the concept of Power (in) = Power (out) for the energy received from the Sun.

[… snip details of how this -18C is arrived at …]

[…] the math here is a little funny which comes with its own set of problems.

I originally read about this in Chapter 5 of “Slaying the Sky Dragon” .

Although it appears to make sense to equate energy in == energy out and consider energy in on just the part the Earth is receiving from the sun, and energy out across the whole Earth…

…

This is mathematically equivalent to treating the Earth like a flat disk, with twice the radius of the Earth (and therefore the same surface area), which disk is constantly 100% of the time receiving on average 1/4th the power per square meter than the Sun is actually emitting.

[…]

As you were actively participating on this thread the entire time I presumed you were actually reading what was being written… perhaps that was a mistaken presumption?

@Andrew

To repeat, I am enjoying what I am finding, and I will at my leisure probably search a few of the assertions.

It may take a while, as my investment so far has been the enjoying of the conversation rather than anything coming close to an extensive investigation […]

So not only was it baseless in the first place but in effect you also aren’t gonna look into it now to back it up… understood.

Perhaps the biggest ‘climate change’ in the past decades has been the climate surrounding discussion and debate, such that one bows out at the slightest challenge… with such a climate of scrutiny perhaps it is no wonder the Anthropogenic Global Warming theory survives even though it is based upon a mathematical model of a flat, black disk constantly and evenly irradiated 24/7 by a model Sun that’s actually 1/4th the strength of the actual Sun.

Cheers,
Claudiu

P.S. If you do ever follow the book reference, also relevant are Chapters 2, 3 and 7.