Enjoying with senses vs feelings

Thank you Cluadiu for a wonderful and prompt answer as always.

I have read a lot of the stuff that Richard has said about feeling good : “remember the last time you felt good and get back to that” , but at the same time it says that I can not “will myself” to feel good, so, there lies the dilemma-- do I have to do something to feel good, or how will feel good happen by itself ?

Is this: via feeling said enjoyment, means, via feeling being enjoyment ?

I can add another voice of support of this ‘vibe-first’ rather than ‘living as the senses first’ approach to actualism, as I for a long time was attempting to become free by just paying attention to the senses but it had a persistent dullness because it was always ‘I’ the identity experiencing the senses - and thus maintaining the dull filter of reality. There was also very little or no progress for a long time during this period.

Additionally, I remember my biggest takeaway from visiting Richard & Vineeto was, ‘Vibes first!’ As in, pay attention to what my vibe is, make the changes there, and everything good comes from that. So you’re welcome to borrow that ‘motto’ as a good reminder :slight_smile:

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thank you very very very much, henryyyyyyyy !

Putting it like you did, resonates much more clearly with me and I can take it to heart, and make it my own, rather than “accepting” it intellectually ( forced on me by command ) :slight_smile:

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Indeed, follow the flow-chart :slight_smile: Actualism flow diagram - #155 by claudiu

You were feeling good before… you remember this feeling good before… you trace back to see when exactly that feeling good stopped happening … then you see what it is that caused the feeling good to stop happening… then you “see the silliness” of letting that take away from feeling good — and once you successfully “see the silliness”, you are automatically back to feeling good!

It really does work this way in practice. There is no hidden meaning behind the words, or anything like that. This is a literal description of how it works!

So the task for you is to try these steps, and if it works great, and if not then if you can identify which of the steps in particular is not working then someone may be able to help in more detail. I know if it were me, the issue would probably be that I hadn’t even tried doing the steps… it took me a few years to start doing it consistently lol.

Hmm I didn’t quite understand your re-phrasing of it. But it’s just a grammatical thing. To re-phrase it more clearly I would say:

The commonality of all these is that the way the enjoyment is ‘done’ or ‘accomplished’ is by feeling the enjoyment.

It’s just emphasising that the enjoyment is a feeling, as in an affective thing (which can be an emotion/feeling or a mood).

I like Henry’s way of putting it - “Vibes first!” :smiley: .

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I wish “I” could hack this on my brain(s)/ i.e my thoughts, henryyyyyyyyy !

Do you mean you don’t understand?

No dear henryyyyyyy

I understand, but I want to “not forget” :sweat_smile:

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That’s what pure intent is for - which is what having the PCE is for :slight_smile:

You’re on the right track!!

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Thanks henryyyy ( miguel, cluadiu, kuba, and others)
for your support, it is great to be part of this community, working
toward evolution of human consciousness :appreciation:

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Wow dear henryyyyyy.

You should know how wonderful your encouragements and support have been for me,
I can thank you enough.

wish you much success on your way to actual freedom.

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Whatever it takes! We’re on this adventure together :raised_hands:t2:

I, FrankN, just saw below quotes that I copy pasted

It’s ( HAIETMOBA )the first step and the last step of dismantling beliefs. It’s the questioning of the very the existence of yourself - which is really the ultimate belief that we’re all trying to get to the bottom of here.
--------------------------------
Feeling good was seeming hard to maintain (and seeming to require ‘me’ to be involved all the time checking up on myself and getting myself back on the horse every other minute) Then I read an old post from geoffrey (I’ll comment it) saying when things were seeming too hard it was usually cause he was looking at his feet.
Ive started allowing sensuosity back in the mix and now that my feeling good is more steady, this is working in a very delightful way. My feeling good doesn’t collapse into itself every second, because the sensuosness is a perpetuation of enjoyment and appreciation visually (and a de-centering of or distraction from identity). It’s like I can keep maintain feeling good just by virtue of keeping this certain way of looking at the world. If feelings do come up, the gentle application of sensuousness interrupts it immediately and puts me right back on track.The right amount of feeling good and the right amount of sensuousness bring everything into colourful, eye-candy focus and then it’s just easy as and throughly relaxing/fun. This really reminds of Srinath’s writen .

I think it’s helpful to talk about application of the method. I’ve been having more success recently with the method than ever before, due to a combination of factors:

  1. Intent
    Without this, there’s no getting off the ground. I always keep in mind that the method is meant to be easy, and if it’s not, surely intent is lacking. So whenever I begin struggling I backtrack and sincerely ramp up my intent by asking whether I want to feel good, whether I want to be happy and harmless. If not, why not?

  2. Current time awareness
    Contemplating that this is my only moment of being alive sometimes results in a realization of that fact. And then it’s easy to feel good. It makes sense. Why would I choose to feel bad when this is my only moment?

  3. Sensuousness
    Once I feel good, this is what keeps it going. Cultivating naiveté and wonder, looking around at things. Without feeling good though, this becomes a rather dissociative exercise. I’ve found that the successful application of the method hinges on seeing the “choice” to feel good now when trapped in an emotional prison of bad feelings or feeling neutral. It has to make sense to me to feel good now.
    To add more about my application of the method, I struggled for many months with increasing frustration at my inability to apply the method. I took this frustration more and more seriously. What helped me break out of this bind was seeing that ‘I’ am my feelings and ‘my’ feelings are ‘me’. That is, during my struggles, these feelings of frustration and anger were happening to me. I considered them an external force which is sabotaging my application of the method. But then I chose to repeatedly ask whether it is really me who is choosing to feel angry and frustrated. As it became increasingly clear that I was making that choice deep down, I began to see how silly it was. Why am I feeling bad about feeling bad? Isn’t it so silly?! I still fall into it sometimes, but once I see that it is I who is choosing to be angry, the feeling is easy to deal with.
    Finally taking ownership of my feelings is also allowing me to be more sincere. Previously I would search for some trick to get back to feeling good, which is basically repression. But now I see that if I’m feeling bad, it’s because I’m choosing to do so. I believe it’s sensible. Then I can tackle it head on. No hiding from myself.

I like this a lot. I do think sensuousness has to include some temporal awarwness…i.e. it’s always now. If not, it devolves into (mindfulness + a pleasant hedonic tone.

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Richard:

it is about allowing the “fascination that it is this moment” to set in such that you are “once more enjoying life”… at which point one is free to experience the trees in however manner one pleases, whether there is watching of trees or cleaning of shitty toilet, it doesn’t take away from this perfection of being alive in the first place. and it occurs solely by virtue of being vitally alive – being dynamically here – at this particular place – in infinite space – at this very moment in eternal time – as a sensuous, reflective flesh-and-blood body only – and thus dependent upon no one, no thing, and no event.

Richard means when he writes that living in actual freedom is to experience everything as happening for the first time. It is impossible to get bored even if doing the same activity over and over because this moment has never happened before, that is my understanding at least :slightly_smiling_face:

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  • Written by an Actualist:

The method is to see the silliness of feeling bad … this is predicated and vitally dependent upon first seeing that this is my only moment of being alive. The reason it is silly to feel bad is because this is my only moment of being alive… and it is silly to fritter it away feeling when life is by ‘default’ inherently enjoyable (like in a PCE)
So it is the knowledge of the unconditional enjoyment that informs me of the silliness of the feeling bad - and then i am feeling good again, enjoying simply being alive.
And then the experience of the conditional is completely transformed - from a bad experience to a good one.
Eg I ask myself how I’m experiencing this moment of being alive … the answer is I am feeling stressed about work because I have a lot of things that need doing. This is now felt fully as opposed to in the background , not hiding anymore… all coping mechanisms cease (like trying to enjoy making a coffee to relax). So then for me the flavor of what is possible hoves into view … this is my only moment of being alive … not any future one that may involve work. Isn’t it silly to waste this moment stressing about some other moment? Yes, yes it is … now a delight starts to surface and a joy and wonder resurfaces. Now I am enjoying being alive The issue is not resolved though , and resurfaces … so now the analysis and contemplation comes in to have it not repeatedly bring me down. This will be a ongoing process until it’s fully resolved.

It’s just not part of the ‘real world’ that it’s possible to always feel good. If you talk with people about it you will see that they don’t even consider the possibility. They will either feel they have to feel bad when something bad happens, or that they would be psychopath or uncaring or robots etc if they don’t feel bad, or they even say that they want to feel bad so that feeling good can be good by comparison! But once you see that by ‘default’ - with no identity messing things up - is inherent enjoyment of being alive, then that completely removes any such excuses as being reasons to feel bad…So the unconditional is what informs that “I don’t have to” keep feeling bad… this is how it is for me anyway

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Written by an Actualist:
LOL I just caught myself trying to be a ‘good actualist’.I became aware of a sort of ‘uneasiness’ feeling while watching tv. On investigation it seemed to be a feeling of guilt – I ‘should’ be doing something. What I discovered was the belief that a ‘good actualist’ should spend all their time trying to become actually free. Of course, what a sincere actualist would be doing is enjoying and appreciating watching the tv (or whatever they might be doing as has been discussed recently).
HoracefromtheForest 11:47 AM
@alan I think a good actualist should spend this time trying to be actually free. Personally. I may not want to be a good actualist at this moment. But if I did then I’d hold close to the PCE. And if I didn’t then I forget about it and enjoy being something else.

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What do you reckon the main difference is between the people who have managed to become free and those who haven’t

Written by an Actualist:

I think ultimately it must boil down to a willingness to go all the way. It seems every person who has become free has the same opinion that without a doubt everyone can become free if they so choose. It reminds me a little. If one has a sincere intent, determination and persistance to go all the way and demonstrates it with daily action then how can it go wrong.**

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Written by an Actualist:
Later on I started thinking about Richards statement that no one is in charge of the universe and this finally clicked like it never has before. I could see that all those values of good and bad are simply taken on at a young age and made into an ultimate authority. However they have no actual existence or power, their power exists only because I sold out my own intelligence and my own individuality when I became a group member. Now this is where things got interesting. Because seeing that no one is in charge of the universe means I am free to live my life however I wish BUT because I live in a perfect universe, I only want what is the best for everyone concerned. This is the closest I have come to understanding what pure intent is. This universe is somehow arranged in a way where each and every person is free to do as they wish and yet when living this perfection one can only want the best, to live in harmony with others and with oneself. I was thinking about how I have always riled against this universe and yet this universe is actually the best ‘set up’ possible. The other thing that clicked shortly after that was what it means to actually want to be here and how I have been instinctually programmed and then socialised to resent being here. I was driving home at one point taking in the scenery, it was just delicious to look at the trees and the extraordinary detail of everything all around, all the while connected to the inherent perfection of this universe and it happened, I actually wanted to be here now, I saw straight away that this is all I have ever wanted for myself and others, to be here free of malice and sorrow, living in peace and harmony, and how could I resent such a perfect situation!

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Written by an Actualist:
Yes I would say so for sure. In fact it’s something I’ve been looking at lately how ‘caring’ in the real world sense is basically worrying, controlling, fantasizing, scheming etc and how the choice to enjoy and appreciate requires me to put this down so that I can pick up enjoyment and appreciation. For me personally ‘caring’ might as well go synonymous with worrying so yeah in order to enjoy and appreciate I stop ‘caring’ about life essentially going according to ‘my’ preconceived values and beliefs and allow enjoyment and appreciation of this moment of being alive.

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