How do you understand “let the moment live you” (as opposed to “live in the moment”)?
[As for my understanding, when the ego and soul weaken, there’s no “me” who lives in the moment but only the body and the intellect working on their own, of their own accord.
I somehow seem to be off the mark, though. Please finetune it @claudiu @rick @Kub933 ]
Hey @Kiman, they way I understand letting the moment live me is all to do with control and pure intent.
‘I’ the identity make a choice to let go of the controls (the morals, beliefs, values, needs, desires etc) and allow the perfection and purity which is already always here to live this life, each moment over.
There comes a point where ‘I’ realize that ‘I’ cannot do this on my own, that ‘I’ am rotten to the core and irregardless of how hard ‘I’ try ‘I’ will always spoil things by the virtue of ‘being’.
What ‘I’ can do though is establish a connection to pure intent which is outside of ‘me’, this pure intent has never known corruption and as such it is capable of living this life in a way that ‘I’ simply cannot, because as hard as ‘I’ try with morals and ethics and beliefs and values, ‘I’ cannot get away from the fact that ‘I’ am sorrow and malice itself.
@Kiman the ego and soul do not weaken. They are either present together (feeling being), in abeyance(PCE) or absent (AF)
Letting the ‘moment live you’ as a feeling being is not easy IMO. You may be able to do it briefly when you let go of the controls temporarily in an EE. But it is something that occurs automatically in a PCE and in AF.
‘Live in the moment’, ‘be in the moment’, ‘live in the present moment’ - this sort of advice has become a cliche of the new-age and self-help sort. ‘Being’ is incompatible with living in this present moment, so any such attempt as a feeling being would be a fantasy and wishful thinking. But through being progressively more happy and harmless, you can have a PCE and at this point you become aware that this moment is all there is and rather than you trying to control everything and live ‘in it’, it simply lives you and you live it.
This is surprising given my experience that ego and soul weaken as I become more attentive to my experiences instead of getting carried away by emotions, because I get to see through them.
If we see it in a different light–Isn’t the suggestion that “not living in mind”(the opposite of “living in the moment”), which includes playing scenarios of past, future, abstract, and fantasy world in mind, helpful? If so, can I take it that since this advice is maligned in the spiritual world so as to mean that ‘I’ am experiencing now with my sensations(i.e., there is a divide between ‘me’ and sensations) instead of I’m the sensations, it’s better to toss it away, although there is merit to it?
@Kiman I’m not sure what you mean by ‘see through’ emotion. Is it possible that you are trying to avoid emotion here? Emotions are not to be seen through but to be experienced as ‘me’ ( I am my feelings - remember?) Once this is done you go back to feeling good - which is once again a feeling which you are feeling. The attentiveness is to all that is around you as experienced as a feeling being – not of experience shorn of emotion (unless you are in a PCE).
Can you rephrase? I’m not sure I understand
Doesn’t “not living in mind(the opposite of “living in the moment”)"–thinking about past and future, abstracting and fantasizing–helpful?
If it is helpful, can I take it that since the advice “Live in the moment” translates to “This moment, ‘I’ am experiencing sensations(which implies there is a divide between ‘me’ and ‘sensations’)” instead of “This moment, ‘I’ am the sensations(which means there is no divide)” while practising, it is better to toss that advice way, although there is merit to it?
Okay does this capture what you are trying to say?
Spiritualists say not to live in the mind as it is the opposite of living in the moment. But living in the moment entails a division between me and sensations (i.e. I am experiencing sensations), rather than my preferred goal of being one with sensation (i.e. I am the sensations) - so it is better to toss this spiritual advice even though there is merit in it
Yeah, except the first sentence.
The following captures it–
“Live in the moment” is helpful because it is the opposite of “Living in mind”. But living in the moment entails a division between me and sensations (i.e. I am experiencing sensations), rather than my preferred goal of being one with sensation (i.e. I am the sensations) - so it is better to toss this spiritual advice even though there is merit in it.
I would say that the advice to live in the moment rather than in the mind is a case of ‘out of the frying pan and into the fire’. Being in one’s head or being lost in thought (which I’m taking here as = living in the mind) is a subtle form of dissociation but attempting to live or be in the moment is worse as it deepens the dissociation but masks it as something good - not to mention adding guilt or a sense of failure that one is unable to do so.
Furthermore its not simply being lost in thought that is an issue, but being lost in feeling and its resulting effect on thought. So as a feeling being one lives in a dream or bubble that is simply ‘you’.
@Kiman actualism is not about being one with sensation. Neither is it about experiencing a division between yourself and sensation. What I think might be happening is that you are taking Richards self report as an actually free person and trying to translate it into advice for yourself as a feeling being. That’s not how it works. Yes as an actually free person ( or a feeling being in a PCE) one realises that one is this body, its sense organs and its consciousness - but that isn’t something you can just adopt.
Here’s how it does work. Forget all this complicated stuff. Just focus on the actualism method. Are you feeling good right now? If not find out why and then get back to feeling good. If you are feeling good just continue as you are. Wash, rinse, repeat. See what arises after a while of doing this.
You can read more about it here:
http://www.actualfreedom.com.au/richard/abditorium/method.htm